On the corner of Chapel Street …….. watching the changes ... no.1

A short series on the transformation of that bit of Salford where Chapel Street meets Greengate.

At the beginning of the last century our corner was given over to buildings used by the railway and a set of yards.

Opposite were a collection of small low rise shops and offices which ran round from Greengate along Chapel Street.

Remarkably these commercial properties were still there in 2011 but had been cleared a year later giving way to an open space with a few small trees.

But as ever the space lasted only till late 2014 when the trees were pulled up and Derek the Developer began plans for a high rise block of flats, which are pretty much completed.

Pictures; Chapel Street and Greengate, 2020, from the collection of Andrew Simpson and in 1980, m66776, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council  http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass  

The bridges of Salford and Manchester .......... nu 10 the 1980s

And here is the second of a few from John Casey.

Location Manchester & Salford










Picture; the river and bridge, circa 1980 from the collection of John Casey

The bridges of Salford and Manchester .......... nu 9 the 1980s

And here is the first of a few from John Casey.

Location; Manchester & Salford









Picture; the river and bridge, circa 1980 from the collection of John Casey

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford ....... nu 30 Chapel Street sometime in the 1980s

This is another of those images from John Casey.

Location; Salford

Picture; Chapel Street, circa 1980, from the collection of John Casey

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford ....... nu 32 the Old Shears Greengate

Now this is a story for which all the credit goes elsewhere.

The picture is another from the camera of John Casey and the description of the pub was taken from that excellent site on the history of Manchester and Salford pubs.

And that is that.

“Described as a dinner time, factory workers type boozer in the 1970s, the Old Shears offered hand-pulled Wilsons plus Carlsberg and Watneys Red for the less discerning drinker. 

The Old Shears on Greengate, just over the River Irwell into the neighbouring city, can be traced back to about 1760.  

The pub was also named the Rising Sun (1805-1809) and the Iron Bridge Tavern (1824). 

Wilsons Brewery took the Old Shears in the 1940s and it thrived until the late 1970s when the nearby bus stations at Chapel Street and under the Greengate arches closed, and the new Trinity Way ring road cut Greengate in half. 

The pub shut for good in 1987 and was derelict and roofless until its demolition in 1993. 

Its location was on Greengate just at the end of New Bridge Street where the car park is now.  

Back in the mid 1800s it would have faced the old Green Gate fruit & veg market here at Salford Cross / Market Cross.”*

Location; Salford

Picture; the Old Shears  circa 1987, from the collection of John Casey

* Pubs of Manchester, http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/old-shears-greengate.html

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford ....... nu 31 the old Ship Inn

This was the very first picture John Casey shared with me.

John took the photograph in the early 1980s and posted it beside a story I ran on the old Ship Inn.

And any one who has recently wandered down this bit of Salford may find the contrast striking.

Location; Salford


Picture; the old Ship Inn, circa 1980, from the collection of John Casey

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford ....... nu 29 Blackfriars Street on a wet day

Now I am indebted to John Casey for sharing some of his wonderful photographs of Salford and Manchester.

They were taken in the early 1980s and are a powerful reminder of just how much the area has changed in a matter of a few decades.

This one of Blackfriars Street on a wet day some thirty years ago is a favourite of mine and pretty much needs no further comment.

Location; Salford

Picture; Blackfriars Street, circa 1980, from the collection of John Casey

A Salford story from John Casey

Now John’s pictures have been a regular feature of the blog so when he sent over a story to accompany some of the Salford Bridge it was too good an opportunity to miss.

As part of the Trinity Way road scheme a new bridge had to be provided to
cross the river Irwell.

Tuesday 9th September 1986 was the day the first section of a new
road-bridge, over the river Irwell,  was placed in position.

The bridge would be made up of twelve girders placed across the river; two
girders a day being placed in position, finishing on the following Sunday.

The bridge girders were brought to site in sections, three sections making
up one whole girder.

Ten of the girders were put together using nuts and bolts to hold the
joining plates.

Each joint required 340 nuts and bolts and six plates to
complete the joint.

When the three sections were assembled they made up a girder 50 ft / 15.25M long, weighing 65 tons with a built-in upward curvature calculated so when the weight of the road surface was added the girder would straighten to within an accuracy of 0.01 ft / 2 mm.

These ten girders were placed between two girders with welded, instead of plated, joints to give a better cosmetic appearance to the sides of the
bridge.

All 12 girders were allowed to rust to a level where the rust would act as a protective coating.

The outer two girders with the welded joints were  initially sandblasted clean so they would both rust to a nice even colour.

The crane used in placing the bridge girders was, at the time, one of the
largest mobile cranes in Europe.

The main lifting arm was delivered to site in sections on trailers, and the whole thing was assembled in a day.

It was built with the help of a smaller crane which could lift 110 tons. Assembly of the arm was done by using steel pins to fix the sections together. The cable, wound on drums, was lifted into position on the main crane and then pulled off and laced with the help of the smaller crane.

When completed the larger crane was capable of lifting 850 tons but was mainly required for the
long reach it had; this long reach enabled it to stretch out over the river
when placing the 65 ton bridge girders.

As the arm is lowered toward the horizontal its weight, plus the added
weight of the load, tries to tilt the whole structure; to offset this, floor
mounted counter-balance weights automatically come into play to counter this shift in weight.

As these weights are floor mounted, and attached by cables
to the rear of the crane, they have to be disconnected to allow the crane to
rotate and pick up the bridge sections.

These sections were previously placed and positioned by the smaller crane, ensuring the main arm was almost vertical at this point. The weights are only reconnected once the arm is
about to be lowered to place the girder.

In 1986 the cost of hiring this crane was £3,000 per day plus £20,000 for
delivery to site.

© John Casey 2017

Location; Salford

Pictures; the bridge over the Irwell, 1987 from the collection of John Casey

On the corner of Chapel Street …….. watching the changes ...no. 4

A short series on the transformation of that bit of Salford where Chapel Street meets Greengate.

2020

At the beginning of the last century our corner was given over to buildings used by the railway and a set of yards.

Opposite were a collection of small low rise shops and offices which ran round from Greengate along Chapel Street.

Remarkably these commercial properties were still there in 2011 but had been cleared a year later giving way to an open space with a few small trees.

1980

But as ever the space lasted only till late 2014 when the trees were pulled up and Derek the Developer began plans for a high rise block of flats, which are pretty much completed.

Location; Salford

Pictures; Chapel Street and Greengate, 2020, from the collection of Andrew Simpson and in 1980, m66776, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council,  http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass  

On the corner of Chapel Street …….. watching the changes ...no. 3

A short series on the transformation of that bit of Salford where Chapel Street meets Greengate.

2020

At the beginning of the last century our corner was given over to buildings used by the railway and a set of yards.

Opposite were a collection of small low rise shops and offices which ran round from Greengate along Chapel Street.

Remarkably these commercial properties were still there in 2011 but had been cleared a year later giving way to an open space with a few small trees.

But as ever the space lasted only till late 2014 when the trees were pulled up and Derek the Developer began plans for a high rise block of flats, which are pretty much completed.

1980

Location; Salford





Pictures; Chapel Street and Greengate, 2020, from the collection of Andrew Simpson and in 1980, m66776, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council,  http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass  

On the corner of Chapel Street …….. watching the changes ...no. 2

A short series on the transformation of that bit of Salford where Chapel Street meets Greengate.

At the beginning of the last century our corner was given over to buildings used by the railway and a set of yards.

Opposite were a collection of small low rise shops and offices which ran round from Greengate along Chapel Street.

Remarkably these commercial properties were still there in 2011 but had been cleared a year later giving way to an open space with a few small trees.

But as ever the space lasted only till late 2014 when the trees were pulled up and Derek the Developer began plans for a high rise block of flats, which are pretty much completed.

Pictures; Chapel Street and Greengate, 2020, from the collection of Andrew Simpson and in 1980, m66776, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass  

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford ... nu 47 less a street and more a pub

Now on the surface who could lose the junction of Chapel Street and New Bailey Street?

On Chapel Street in 2016

I bet it will have been just as busy back when the New Bailey Prison stood dark and foreboding and the Joule family were brewing beer from their New Bailey Bridge Brewery.

So if the street is still there what about the buildings?

For those with  rusty memories you can compare my picture taken in 2016, with that taken in 1980.

Of course the space on the left occupied by the hoarding was back then still filled with a big building and the sky line beyond the railway bridge has undergone a transformation.

On Chapel Street in 1980

And so of course has the building to our right which many will remember as the Brown Bull.

In the last decade it has gone through a series of changes from Copperheads in 2008, to the Moti Mahal Tandoori in 2012, Jae’s two years later and most recently as an Italian restaurant.

And things may be about to go through another change because when I passed a few days ago there was a big to let sign above the door.

Location; Salford

Pictures; Chapel Street and New Bailey Street, 2016 from the collection of Andrew Simpson and in 1980, m66741, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford nu 42 Chapel Street in the 1980s .... or not

This one I like.

I could go on about the composition and the the mix of the old and new but will just say that John Casey captured Chapel Street perfectly.

That said I thought it was from John's 1980s collection but a debate which has ensued suggests I may be out by a decade and a bit which all adds to the fun.

And to help clarify things, from Steven Robertson,"those Mercury Vapour Street lights were removed in 1972".

Location; Chapel Street

Picture; Chapel Street, circa 1980s or not, from the collection of John Casey

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford ....... nu 29 on a wet Blackfriars Street

Now I am indebted to John Casey for sharing some of his wonderful photographs of Salford and Manchester.

They were taken in the early 1980s and are a powerful reminder of just how much the area has changed in a matter of a few decades.

This one of Blackfriars Street on a wet day some thirty years ago is a favourite of mine and pretty much needs no further comment.

Location; Salford

Picture; Blackfriars Street, circa 1980, from the collection of John Casey

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford no 50 on Blackfriars Street

Another from John Casey

Location; Salford






Picture; Salford in the 1980s from the collection of John Casey

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford ............. nu 22 that bit of Greengate now a new development

Greengate, 2016

Now I just can’t get away from Greengate, which is not surprising given that it is locked into so many people’s memories.

And it is the start of that road that I am back with and in particular the buildings which existed on the corner and are now gone.

That said they were still there in 2008 but in the course of the intervening eight years were demolished, were briefly an open space in 2011 and last year became a building site.

Last time I was down on Greengate that developers dream had pretty much become a reality with one of those tall blocks rising straight into the air and competing in height with several others.

I never really knew the story of those previous buildings so I was pleased that Judith Wilson took the time to add this short account of the building.

Those buildings in 1980

“The building on the left had many lives, hotel, furniture store etc. 

Bearings Parts and next door Canterbury House was a charity who has the building compulsory purchased before it was sadly demolished. 

I worked in this quirky building for 10 years. My father also worked on Chapel Street for 40 years at D C Thomson, the printers that did Dandy, Beano etc. 

We lived in LH and got the bus home from work under the arches. I discovered much later that my ancestors lived in various streets off Chapel street, Collier Street, Yorkshire street, and Mount Pleasant sq 

So I share Andrew's obsession with the area too!!”

Nor was Judith alone in recalling that spot with others remembering waiting for buses directly opposite and others remembering delivering materials to the shops.

Maggie wrote  “I used to stand at that bus stop every night at 5.30 with my cousin Helen. We caught the number 3 bus to Seedley in Salford,” and Alf adding “I used to get the no3 from there at 5.45 to Langworthy Road every night.”

All of which means that this bit of Greengate is far from being forgotten even if it has been lost with the passage of time.

Location; Salford

Pictures; on Greengate, 2016 from the collection of Andrew Simpson and in 1980, m66776, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council  http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass  

Lost and forgotten streets of Salford nu 18 ........ compare and contrast

Now I am the first to admit I have become fixated by Greengate.

Greengate, 1980

And that is all the more ironic given that I wasn’t born in Salford and until a couple of decades ago was only vaguely aware of its existence.

But with that out of the way I can turn to one of those themes much loved by some which is a then and now set of pictures.

Just a couple of weeks ago I wandered across to Greengate and recorded the new development, featured it in a story and today came across an image taken almost exactly from the same spot in 1980.

Greengate, 2016

We are used to those contrasting pictures of a spot which show the changes over a century but it is quite sobering to realize that just thirty-six years separate the two scenes.

And for those in the know the buildings to the right vanished even more recently.

So that is it, for once no detailed search for the people who lived, and worked here just the two images with of course that golden rule always take a camera with you just in case the present is about to become history.

Location; Salford

Pictures; down by Greengate, 1980, m66776, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council  http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass  and from almost the same spot, 2016 from the collection of Andrew Simpson