With Elizabeth Jane Hunt and three children in a two roomed house in Eltham in 1911

This is the White Hart on a summer’s day in 1909, and it was going to be the subject of the story.

Mrs Ann Nunn who ran the five roomed pub was 59 years old had been born in Suffolk and was a widow.

During the twenty or so years before 1909 she had run another pub on King Arthur Street a few minutes’ walk from New Cross Road.  Back then it was a densely packed part of south east London close to an iron works and in the shadow of the viaduct of the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway.

Now I don’t yet know when her husband died but I think it may have been in 1897.  Either way she was still in King Arthur Street in 1901 and will have moved into the White Hart sometime aftter the January of 1908 and had gone by 1918.  Now I know this because she does not show up on either the street directories for 1908 and 1918 but is there on the sign above the door of the pub in 1909 and fills in her census return two years later.

But as things do I was drawn away from Mrs Nunn and instead wandered a little further up the street, stopping first at Harry Harvey’s fruit and greengrocer’s shop next door.

It is one of those remarkable examples of just how many people can be squeezed into a small property.

Here in the two rooms above the shop lived Mr and Mrs Harvey their two young children and the 18 years old assistant Frederick Walter Saunders.

Nor were the Harvey’s the only family to juggle overcrowded conditions, for around the corner in another two properties with just two rooms each lived the Chapman family of four and Mrs Hunt and her three children.

And it is Elizabeth Jane Hunt’s story that draws you in.  Her three children were aged, 10, 8 and 6, and for her the juggling began with having to have her daughter in her bedroom leaving the two boys to share the downstairs room beside the scullery.

She had been married for eleven years and worked a charwoman, which was not an easy job.

The date of her husband’s death has eluded me so far but I know he was called Charles and worked as a “Steel and Grass Borer in the Gas Works", and in the April of 1901 Elizabeth and Charles were living on the Broadway in Bexleyheath not far from Gravel Hill.  There is a record of a Charles Hunt who died in 1907 which puts their youngest child at just two years old.

His death may have occasioned the move to 4A the High Street and those two rooms hard by the White Hart.

I don’t have a picture of the properties but they look to have been built with one room above the other and a lean to scullery or kitchen attached.

Alternatively they may have been part of number 4 which was the shop run by the Harvey's/  If so this makes that property a much larger one with six rooms which will have been subdivided.

Either way neither Elizabeth Jane or Mr amd Mrs Chapman appear on those street directories which either means the rooms were vacant or that they were not deemed important enough to be listed at number 4.

I am hoping that someone will have a picture, but in the meantime I am forced back to that of the White Hart.

Pictures; the White Hart in 1909, from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm

At the Kings Arms waiting for Fred Wisdom to pull a pint

Now this is one of those familiar pictures of the High Street, looking east towards the church and Court Yard some time in 1915.

It comes from an excellent collection from Greenwich Heritage Centre which I discovered recently.

On the surface it is interesting enough but it is the clues it offers up about some of the people who lived along this bit of the High street.

And because Mr Digby who took the picture focused on the Kings Arms I shall start with the pub and its landlord Fred Wisdom.

I can’t be sure when he took over the place but four years earlier he had been running the Railway Bell in Tonbridge.

He lived here with his wife Elizabeth, their two young children and his two nieces who worked behind the bar and described themselves as assistants.

And there is more because I know that Fred was born in 1878, Elizabeth two years earlier and they had been married in 1899.

I doubt we will ever know why they moved to Eltham but they were here by 1914 and were still pulling pints six years later.

All of which came from trawling the street directories and electoral registers which supply the names of the rest of the inhabitants on the block running up to Court Yard.

But for now my attention has been drawn to the big billboard on the gable end.

It is advertising the serialization of a story by Hall Cains who was one of the most popular novelists in the later Victorian and Edwardian period with many of his books being turned into films.

According to one source they were primarily romances, involving love triangles, but also addressed some of the more serious political and social issues of the day.

And as if on cue the book advertised as being serialized in the popular Reynolds’s News was Woman Thou Gavest Me. which I shall go looking for.

But I will just leave you back on the High Street in 1915.

Picture; the Old Kings Head, High Street Eltham, GRW 276, http://boroughphotos.org/greenwich/
courtesy of Greenwich Heritage Centre, http://www.greenwichheritage.org/site/index.php

William & Julia Relph of the Rising Sun a promise fulfilled

This is William Relph who ran the Rising Sun on the High Street from sometime in the 1880s till his death in 1909.

Now you can never be certain but it is more than likely that when a photographer turned up in the High Street in the summer of 1890 it will have been the landlord of the Rising Sun who came to the door to see what all the fuss was about.

And so this is William Relph and I have to own up to a mix of quiet satisfaction and fascination that I have tracked him down.

It was a promise I made in earlier stories and have now completed that promise.*

He was born in Greenwich in 1847 and came from a family that ran public houses.

What marks him out as a little special is that William saw his time out in both the old Rising Sun and the new one which still stands on the High Street.

The old pub according to our historian R.R.C Gregory was about 200 years old when it was demolished and replaced by the present pub in 1904.

Nor is that the only thing that intrigues me about William.

I had almost given up hope of finding him and then as you do I came across his widow Julia who was still in charge in 1911, and it was Julia who caught my imagination.

She was born in Cadiz, Spain and of course that raises all sorts of intriguing speculation.

But before I could go off on a flight of fancy I discovered her maiden name was West and like William her father was a publican.

That said her parents were in Spain between the birth of her brother in 1852 and when she was born two years later which may explain why they are missing from the census returns for the middle decades of the 19th century.

So there is more to find out but finding William and Julia of the Rising Sun is enough for now.

Pictures; from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers,  and Chrissie Rose February 2014

*Eltham’s Rising Sun, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Eltham%27s%20Rising%20Sun

The lost Eltham & Woolwich pictures ...... no.17 the Rising Sun in pale blue

A short series on the pictures of Eltham and Woolwich in 1976.

For four decades the pictures I took of Eltham and Woolwich in the mid ‘70’s sat undisturbed in our cellar.

But all good things eventually come to light.

They were colour slides which have been transferred electronically.

The quality of the original lighting and the sharpness is sometimes iffy, but they are a record of a lost Eltham and Woolwich.

Location; Eltham

Picture; Eltham, circa 1976, from the collection of Andrew Simpson

In the King's Arms in Eltham with William Goodwin sometime after 1822

“A characteristic feature of the King’s Arms is the quant fire place which still exists in the parlour, as well as the ancient clock, the old bacon rack, and the distinct air of antiquity which all the rooms wear, and it is easy to imagine the association of the house with times earlier than the middle of the 17th century, the date mentioned in the book of taverns.”*

Now when R.R.C, Gregory wrote this description of the place in 1909 it may well already have clocked its second century.

For there is a tantalizing reference to an inn at Eltham from a directory of taverns in the counties around London, but sadly we do not have a name.  Mr Gregory rather thought it might have been the Castle on the strength of the date of two metal tokens found on the site which carried the legend, THE CASTELL. TAVERNE – A Castle, and  ELTHAM. 1649 – N.T.M.

Tokens circulated widely in the 17th and early 18th century and were a direct response to the lack of low denomination currency which led to businessmen and traders creating large issues which could be redeemed at the shop, warehouse or inn of the owner.

And along with the 1649 token were ones from other merchants dating back slightly earlier and in to the 1660s.

All of which lies wide open the question of which was the oldest pub and for that I guess I will have to wait.

But at least I know that the Kings Arms was in the hands of William Godwin by at least 1822, for in that year he and his wife Ann baptized their son in the parish church and there in the records he is listed as an inn keeper.

And we can then track him through tax records, local directories and the census all the way up to 1871, by which time he was 80 and living with his two sons, a married daughter a grandson and two lodgers.

Across the way behind him at the Crown was John Martin who had started his pub career just a little later but was also still going strong in the April of 1871.

Now I like the etail in these pictures so I was drawn to the Dartford Brewery sign which dates our photograoh from sometimetime between 1897 and 1909.

According to AIM25, 'the Dartford Brewery was founded as "Miller and Aldworth", and from 1887 "Miller and Aldworth Limited". 

It was incorporated in July 1897 as "Dartford Brewery Company Limited". The Brewery was situated at Lowfield Street, Dartford, Kent.

The brewery was acquired jointly by Style and Winch Limited and the Royal Brewery Brentford Limited in 1924; and was therefore acquired by Barclay Perkins and Company Limited in 1929 when it purchased Style and Winch Limited and the Royal Brewery Brentford Limited.

The Brewery went into voluntary liquidation in 1970'.**

*R.R.C.Gregory, the Story of Royal Eltham, 1909

**Aim25, AIM25 is a major project to provide electronic access to collection level descriptions of the archives of over one hundred higher education institutions, learned societies, cultural organisations and livery companies within the greater London area http://www.aim25.ac.uk/


Pictures; The Kings Arms and the old fireplace from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/

Visitation of God or manslaughter, the death of John Bradshaw in Eltham in 1837

Rural communities have never been the peaceful idyllic places some would have us believe.

In just a short two decades, the small township of Chorlton-cum-Hardy experienced two murders, a series of daring burglaries and two cases of infanticide.

There were also groups of violent drunks from Manchester who persistently intimidated the local residents and just a mile or so away passengers on packet boats travelling along the Duke’s Canal from Stretford were pelted with stones.

Some of the crimes were opportunistic, others like the poaching of potatoes from the fields on the northern side of Chorlton were organised by gangs who came in from Hulme equipped with wheel barrows and their own sacks.

From the Times February 1 1837

And then because the southern end of the township opened out onto the flood plain and was relatively remote it was perfect for illegal prize fighting which could attract hundreds who if necessary could escape over the Mersey into Cheshire and thereby evade the Lancashire police.

All of which makes me think that the drunken attack on the landlord of the Castle in Eltham High Street in the January of 1837 will not have been an isolated case.  Indeed just a few months later an armed gang of escaped convicts from Woolwich were apprehended trying to make for the woods to the south of Shooters Hill.*

Now there is a danger in elevating two events into a crime wave, but I rather think it is just that we haven’t looked too closely at the newspaper reports or the Quarterly Sessions.

And so back to Mr John Bradshaw, late of the Castle in the High Street and the story of John Foster who came to the assistance of the landlord.

Like so many nice tales of the past its telling emerged from a chance discovery of a newspaper report of the inquest into Mr Bradshaw’s death and the work of my new chum Jean who is a descendant of John Foster.**

The Foster’s ran the smithy in the High Street and were well respected that stories of old Mr Foster were still circulating into the town almost a hundred years after he first arrived from Carlisle.

The Castle in 1909

The story itself is not an unusual one, a drunk by the name of Lucas fell foul of the landlord who ordered him out and in the subsequent scuffle Mr Bradshaw was hit and fell over.

And this was where the young John Foster came into the story attempting to remove Lucas from the pub not once but twice.

In the meantime Mr Bradshaw had died and the medial opinion was his death had been “caused by a sudden fit or a convulsion of the brain, produced by a fall.  His death must have been instantaneous.”***

The inquest was held in Mr Bradshaw’s pub which was a common enough practice, given that after the church the only other public place large enough would have been the school house or a pub.

Now I have come across quite a few inquests from the period and what I always find fascinating is that they provide a rare opportunity to hear ordinary people, many of whom have not left a scrap of written material about themselves or their times.

And so here we have John Foster, along with John Heritage and Mrs Bradshaw speaking directly to us of the event that happened that night.

Nor is that all for in the course of the inquest other people are mentioned all of whom it should be possible to track down.

But most striking is the clash between the coroner and the Jury.  He was satisfied and said so that the death was “by the visitation of God” rather than at the hand of Lucas which conflicted with their verdict “That the death of the deceased was caused by over excitement, produced by the conduct of James Lucas.”

Remarkably the Coroner refused to accept the verdict, directed them to think again and when by a majority they returned the same decision commented “I cannot agree with you that your verdict is a proper one. [and was] bound to order you all to appear at the Criminal Court and take the onion of the learned judge whether I am bound to receive such a verdict, which is in direct opposition to the evidence.”

This is a judgement by the Coroner made all the more odd given one witness reported that it was Lucas’s blow to Mr Bradshaw which had resulted in the fall and subsequent conclusion commented on by the surgeon.

Now unlike other inquests I have written about we do not know who the jurors were and that is a pity because they appear to have been a resolute bunch prepared to stand up to the Coroner.

So much so that the foreman was moved to comment that “If we are obliged to attend without returning our verdict, I am quite at a loss to know what use it is to call jury.  For my part I have come to the determination to return no other verdict.”

All of which makes me feel for these “little men” who were prepared to stand their ground against the professional with all his authority.

Now that could just be the end of the story but not quite.  John Bradshaw was buried in the parish church and there will opportunities to pursue the lives of the others mentioned in the inquest.

And so to Lucas.

From the court records, 1837

A search of the criminal records revealed that a James Lucas aged 51 went before the Kent Assizes on January 30th 1837 for manslaughter and was acquitted.

There is of course a slight mismatch in dates.  The inquest report is dated February 1st and the hearing was the day before.  But given that the Times reported that the inquiry was adjourned until the following evening when the Coroner had consulted a higher authority “as to whether I can receive your verdict” it may well be that the jury was once again ignored.

As it was James Lucas was in Well Hall in 1841, a widow living with his two daughters, Harriet aged 14 and Emmie aged 12.  His given occupation was a sawyer and so now a new search begins, for information on his wife Sarah and perhaps some of the other people named in the inquest who may well have worked with him.

*Convict Chase and Capture, the Times May 8th 1837
**Tragedy at the Castle Inn, Jean Gammons and based on a report in The Times February 1st 1837
***evidence of Mr David King, surgeon

Picture; The Castle Inn from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/ 

The Welcome Inn ................... the early days

Now some stories just have a habit of not wanting to go away.

They stay hanging around challenging you to go off and discover something new to add to what has already been said.

And so it is with the Welcome Inn which every time I feature the pub strikes a chord with many people usually about my age.

In particular it is tales of Sunday nights which continue to bubble up enriched by the memories of meeting future husbands or lasting friends.

And I should know because while I was just that bit too young to drink I would listen to the happy crowds coming back down Well Hall Road past our house in the mid 60s a little after closing time.

More recently I began looking for the history of the place, and while a few people were able to offer up names of past landlords the very early history of the pub proved illusory.

And then my old friend, fellow researcher and local historian Tricia Leslie told me about The Woolwich Story by E.F. E. Jefferson.

It is as she promised me a wonderful account of the Borough from the earliest of times up to its merger with Greenwich.

I have already used the book and know I shall go on plundering it for some time to come.

So in the chapter on the 1920s I came across this “On the brow of the hill stood a large wooden building used as a workmen’s club but demolished about 1927 when the Welcome Inn was built.  

This modern hostelry set new standards in both furnishing and service.  Seated in comfort, one had to preserve patience until the waiter came to take the order, for customers were not permitted to get their own drinks at the bar. 

But this arrangement proved too leisurely, annoyed those who only had time for a quick one and tended generally toward the restraint of trade. A wise host discontinued the practice.”

Now I have no idea when that service was discontinued but I well remember the practice was still in use in some of the big Manchester pubs in the late 1960s, with the waiters in white jackets and in some rooms a bell push to summon assistance.

Sadly there are few photographs of the waiters or indeed the interiors and it would be nice if any could be shared of the Welcome in its heyday.

So that is it.  I now know when the pub was open which was clearly aimed at the Progress Estate and the new build going up behind the pub and the appeal is out for pictures.

We shall see what we get.

But in the meantime I shall go looking at the electoral registers which will give us the names of the landlords or landladies from when it opened through to the 1960s.

Location, Eltham

Picture; the site of the Welcome courtesy of Jean and the cover of The Woolwich Story

Down at the Castle in the High Street with a bit of historical magic

Now one of the best things about history is when you get to touch it.

And for me it doesn’t that matter much whether it’s a Roman coin or a glass medicine bottle from the beginning of the last century.

To touch the object and know that somewhere on it will be the fingerprints of the person who first made it and a story that will twist and turn in all directions is magic.

One of my greatest treasures is a Viking oyster shell which had lain in the mud of Jorvik for a thousand years before the archaeologists of the City of York brought it back into the day light.

Back in 1978 when it was uncovered there were so many that they were put in a wooden barrel and were on sale for 10p.

The other find was from the back of our shed where Dad had carefully placed thirty copper earth rods made for one of those very early wireless sets.

The batch dated from the 1920s, had sat in our garden shed in Well Hall for years and had been made in the Acnaconda Works, Salford which is just down the road.

All of which is an introduction to this 17th century trade token which Tricia shared with me.

Tokens like this were issued by traders in the absence of low value coinage, and was a practice which extended into the 18th century.

In Eltham the oldest dates from 1649 and bears the names of Nathaniel and Tasmin Mercer who were running the Castle, while another from 1667.

They were unearthed when the old Castle pub was demolished, and also found was one for William Crich of the Grocers’ Arms Deptford dated 1663.

Now imagine how over the moon I was when Tricia said  "I have been investigating the attached farthing tokens concerning The Castle for some time. 

I have been trying to find out who the initials belong to (NT & wife T) reading your post today I now know it to be Nathaniel & Tasmin Mercer. So I am handing it over to you to add to your blog seeing as you have done all the hard work.

The description is as follows. 17c farthing token issued by NM and wife T at the Castelle Taverne, Issue date 1649, denomination farthing, metal copper alloy, diameter 14mm."

And that is it.  A pretty neat bit of joint research.

Location, Eltham

Picture, the 1649 Castle trade token courtesy of Tricia Lesley

The Library ..... the pub ..... and the oilman .... with a thank you to Village Eltham

Now I know there will be plenty of pictures of the library knocking around and I dare say some better quality versions of this one which dates from around 1915.

Eltham High Street, circa 1915

But I like it for all sorts of reasons, not least because of the detail it offers of the High Street on a bright sunny day, but also because like many it was somewhere I regularly went to, added to which it was where our Stella worked during the 1970s and into the next decade.

So not surprising then that it crops up on the blog in various stories including some that feature a painting by Peter Topping, who like me has been drawn to it, which is a tribute to the building given that Peter is from Preston and has never visited Eltham.*

But I digress, going back to the photograph along with the Library on the north side of the High Street is The Rising sun whose landlady in 1918 was a Mrs. Shirley Relph who took over the pub after the death of her husband in 1909.  He was a William Relph who offered up beer and cheer from sometime in the 1880s and moved into the new Rising Sun when it was built in 1904.

The Rising Sun, 1915

The old pub according to our historian R.R.C Gregory was about 200 years old when it was demolished and replaced by the present pub .

Nor is that the only thing that intrigues me about William.

I had almost given up hope of finding him and then as you do I came across his widow Julia who was still in charge in 1911, and it was Julia who caught my imagination.

She was born in Cadiz, Spain and of course that raises all sorts of intriguing speculation.

But before I could go off on a flight of fancy I discovered her maiden name was West and like William her father was a publican.

That said her parents were in Spain between the birth of her brother in 1852 and when she was born two years later which may explain why they are missing from the census returns for the middle decades of the 19th century.

Directly opposite between Pound Place and Elm Terrace there was a group of tradesmen, which included Frederick Cook, baker at 142, George Mence Smith, oilman at 144, the coach builders Robert Whittaker & Coin 144a, leaving just William Ryde and Sons who were ironmongers and Thomas Grant Bootmaker.**

I am indebted to Paula Richardson, who along with Gus White and Ian Murdock produced a delightful little book in 1984 entitled Village Eltham, which   included 36 photographs of Eltham and the surrounding district drawn from their collection of old picture postcards.***

The book was sent to me by my friend Barbara who like me attended Crown Woods, and like me left Eltham in the late 1960s, me for Manchester and Barbara for Ontario,

Village Eltham, 1984

All of which means the book has travelled far.

Now ever mindful of copyright I only reproduced one image from the book along with the cover, and expressed the hope that the authors would see the story and grant me permission to use some more of the images.

And so just a few days after I posted the story  Pauls got in touch writing, “Hi Andrew - this brought back memories. We published this privately. Most of the postcards were collected by my ex partner, Ian and his friend, Gus. We were all members of the local history group in Eltham. 

I lost touch years ago when I moved to Australia, but I'm sure as long as you give us credit, it is ok for you to share some images, as the whole point of the book was to take them to a wider audience”.****

So I shall do just that.

*Eltham Library, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search/label/Eltham%20Library

**Eltham High Street, 1918, Post Office Directory, London, 1918

***A little bit of Eltham from Ontario in Canada, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/2022/04/a-little-bit-of-eltham-from-ontario-in.html

 ****Eltham Village,  Gus White, Ian Murdock and Paula Richardson in 1984 and published by G & Pi Publications Eltham

Looking at the Greyhound on Eltham High Street

Sometimes it is just sufficient to let the image do the business.

We are on the High Street and the caption just says “The Greyhound and other buildings (from and old photograph)".

And for once I shan’t attempt to poke around behind the front doors, other than to say that running the Greyhound in 1908 was Ernest Robert Elms, who lived in the seven roomed property with his wife, two children and a barman.

Pictures; the Greyhound and other buildings, from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm

Outside the Rising Sun with a bit of old Eltham circa 1890

The old Rising Sun Inn circa 1890

Now I am drawn to this picture of the old Rising Sun.

I have fond memories of spending evenings in the place when I was much younger and it was also a favourite of my late brother in law.

But of course this was the old Rising Sun which stood on the site of the present library and is the start of that little series which aims to reflect on what Eltham was like at the beginning of the 20th century just before the great changes transformed it from rural outpost to a suburb.

It dated back something like two hundred years and went with the development of the area by the Borough Council shortly after the turn of the last century.

The Smithy with the Rising Sun and Sun Yard, 1858-73

Along with the pub went Sun Yard, a coach building workshop, the smithy and “a number of quaint wooden buildings, including the coffee shop at the corner.”*

Of all of these I have become intrigued by Sun Yard which housed a collection of wooden cottages which were situated behind the inn and were approached by an archway formed by part of the inn buildings.

There were twenty of them in 1841 and perhaps another five a decade later.  We know who lived there what they did and the degree to which they were overcrowded and by the turn of the last century they were judged unfit and were demolished I guess at the same time as the Rising Sun.

And like the occupants of Sun Yard we can track the publicans from John Davison in 1841 to the widow Elizabeth Robinson ten years later and through the rest of that century.

Outside the Rising Sun

All of which will make a fascinating study in revealing just how often the occupants of Sun Yard like that of the inn keepers moved on or stayed put.  But that is for another time.

So we shall return briefly to our picture with the landlord standing outside, along with assorted carts whose drivers may well have been inside and the two boys drawn no doubt by the camera.

I don’t know the name of the landlord but I shall endeavour to find out, but I do know that the last blacksmith was a Mr Metcalfe and the smithy was in a dilapidated condition.

*Gregory, R.R.C., The Story of Royal Eltham, 1909

Picture; from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm and detail from the OS map of Kent 1858-73

Back with the Rising Sun, a new picture and a little bit about Harry & Vincent Nicholl and their Albion Brewery in Lewisham

The Rising Sun circa 1890

The old Rising Sun stood on the site of the present library.

It dated back something like two hundred years and was swept away with the development of the area by the Borough Council shortly after the turn of the last century.

When I wrote the story I fully attended to follow up on finding out more about the landlord who stares back at us in this old photograph, but of course never did, but I shall do so later in the year.

The Rising Sun in 2014

In the meantime here is the new Rising Sun taken by Chrissie a few days ago.

I say the new Rising Sun but that is stretching it a bit for what you see went up in 1904 replacing our old pub which  in the words of our historian R.R.C. Gregory, “was a fair specimen of a village inn.”*

Now as most of you will know I do have a romantic side which is expressed in a feeling of sadness that some of our old buildings have vanished.

I would love to have sat inside and drank a pint of Nicholl’s best bitter.

It would have been made by Harry and Vincent Nicholl who opened the Anchor Brewery on Lewisham Road, and continued to brew under their name till the company was taken over by Whitbread in 1891 when brewing ceased and “the premises were converted into Whitbread’s first branch bottling and distribution centre.**

The landlord of the Rising Sun around 1890 and a promise to find out more

All of which confirms a date for our picture to sometime in or before 1890.

So with that fairly definite date, I see no excuse for not hunting down our landlord and writing something about him.

But in the meantime I shall return to the "new" Rising Sun which is just a century and a bit old today.

I do have a sneaking admiration for the present one.

It is a striking piece of architecture and I have to say I think Chrissie caught it at its best I the fading light of a February day.

Location; Eltham High Street, London

*Gregory, R.R.C., The Story of Royal Eltham, 1909

**H & V Nicholl’s Brewery co Ltd, Anchor Brewery, from  The Brewery Industry: A Guide to Historical Records, P249, L. Richmond & Alison Turton, 1990, Manchester University Press, http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NB8NAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA250&lpg=PA250&dq=nicholls+brewery&source=bl&ots=Ek0o2INM5m&sig=HcMrTP4FMhZuu2cV2J98SGaMYrg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Upb8UuHdIOew7Aac14CIAw&ved=0CGwQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=nicholls%20brewery&f=false

Pictures; from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm  and Chrissie Rose February 2014

Painting Well Hall and Eltham ....... nu 2 the Greyhound

An occasional series featuring buildings and places I like and painted by Peter Topping.

I always remember this as the Greyhound and it will have been one of the first pubs I went into when I was old enough and so I asked Peter to paint it using a photograph taken by Chrissy Rose.

Peter and I have been working together on projects for almost a decade including two books and an 80 meter installation along with various smaller displays and plenty of commissions.

And next time I am home I might book to eat in the restaurant.

Location; Eltham, London




Painting; Ye old Greyhound © 2015 Peter Topping from a photograph by Chrissy Rose 2014

Web: www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk

Facebook: Paintings from Pictures https://www.facebook.com/paintingsfrompictures

Doing the business of running Eltham from a pub and charging the ratepayers for the drinks

The old Greyhound and other buildings, 1909

Pubs and inns have always been more than just places to drink and relax, like the posh coffeehouses of the 17^th century they were also venues for political debate and business.

More recently during the 19^th century they were the place where workmen were often paid at the end of the working day or the working week and in rural areas were where inquests were held.

So the murder of Mary Moore on her way home from the Manchester markets was held at the Red Lion in Withington while the murder of Francis Deakin in a beer shop in Chorlton-cum-Hardy was held at the Horse and Jockey on the green along with local cases of infanticide.

And at least one meeting of the committee which ran the township retreated to the Bowling Green Hotel on being unable to get into the school hall.

So I wasn’t at all surprised to discover that back in Eltham much parish and local government business was undertaken in one of the three inns.  According to the parish records during the early 19^th century the favoured places were the Crown, the Castle, and the Greyhound.  “At the Easter vestry meeting of 1812 it was reported that the refreshment item of the past year had reached the sum of £39 12s 10d”*

But before we cry shocking I suspect like Chorlton and Withington there was no where large enough to accommodate the group.  The vestry room of the church would be too small and I suspect would so the vicarage but that doesn’t preclude the church itself.

The Old Castle, 1909

But pubs have always been an alternative place for meetings, ranging from trade union branch meetings to political groups and the sick and burial clubs which were a feature of the 19^th century.

So that £39.12s 10d, was made up by

"1811, Easter Monday, Paid at the Castle inn, £10.10s.

31^st May. Paid at the Crown on making a rate, £6 9s. 2d; paid at the Greyhound on taking the population, £4.8s. 4d.

2nd November.  Paid at the Castle Inn on putting out two apprentices, one to Mr.Pattenden and to Mr Nightingale, £2 1s. Paid at the Greyhound Inn in making a new rate, £6 8s. 6d.

Paid at the Greyhound Inn on making a new rate, £6 8s 6d; expenses of different meetings held at inns respecting the Militia, £3.13s

30^th December.  Expenses at the Crown at a meeting to consider what plan to take respecting Groombridge, £16 10s.  Paid at the Greyhound Inn at binding two apprentices, one to Mr. Rolfe, Eltham, one to Mr Ward at the Greyhoundon the Militia business 11s.

January, 1812.  Paid expenses at the Greyhound, 5s and at the Castle, 6s 6d., respecting Groombridge.  Paid expenses at the Greyhound Inn, binding Thomas Rolf, £1 1s. 4d.

March.  Paid at the Greyhound Inn in setting rates, “£1.2d.  Paid at the Castle Inn, 12s.”

Now I have nothing against a drink but there is something a little surprising at the extent of the socialising, given that the Vestry records for Chorlton show only one such pub meeting and no where do the records show a bar bill.

The old Greyhound

But maybe we are just not comparing like for like.  For the Eltham records cover the early 19^th century added to which Mr Gregory only quotes the one year while those for Chorlton stretch from 1838 through to the 1860s and were during the period after the creation of the New Poor Law when all was more serious and more cost conscious.

Perhaps I shall have to trawl for the earlier records for Chorlton, and in the meantime will reflect that for tomorrow we shall be in the old King’s Arms with William Goodwin who was pulling pints and dispensing bar room conversation from at least 1822 through to 1871.

Location; Eltham, London

*R.R.C.Gregory, the Story of Royal Eltham, 1909

Pictures; the Old Castle Inn and the Greyhound, 1909, from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm 

Walking down Passey Place in 1911 and asking for a pint at the Park Tavern

Now I have been a wee bit harsh about Passey Place in the past.

You turn off into it from the High Street and once you have passed the old post office you are flanked by drab modern buildings with the side of the Market Place to your right and that long block of shops and flats opposite.

But there are those two fine looking houses a little further along and then the Park Tavern which as Chrissy’s picture shows was being redecorated back in 2015.

So with that as an incentive I thought I would revisit Passey Place but with the twist that we are back in the April of 1911 when it was called Park Place and it counted amongst its residents, a doctor, a retired Professor a rate collector, and an omnibus conductor.

And I shall be even more specific and point out that those two fine houses I admire were the homes of Mr Murphy the rate collector and Mr Hutchinson the omnibus conductor and by 1914 the first had become the Blackheath Conservatoire of Music and perhaps because of that the Hutchinson’s next door had moved out and a Mr Morris had moved in.*

But there was one constant and that was William Smith the publican of the Park Tavern who was pulling pints by 1911 and perhaps earlier.

He was 50 years old in the year we wandered down the road, had been born in Scotland and had married Mrs Smith in 1883.

And they shared the pub with young Beatrice Serres and Alfred Osborn.  Beatrice was just 19 came from Kent and was employed as a domestic servant and Alfred at 79 was still working as a carpenter.

On the opposite side of the road along with the Post Office and Methodist Chapel were a number of residents including Madame Cecilia Ronsard who described herself as a dressmaker.

So an interesting and mixed bag of people in what I suspect was a more gentle and interesting street.

Picture; the Park Tavern © Chrissy Rose, June 2015

*The Post Office London Directory, 1914 & the 1911 census return fo Park Tavern Enu 06 Eltham London

Painting Well Hall and Eltham ....... nu 10 outside the Park Tavern

Now I have been a wee bit harsh about Passey Place in the past.

You turn off into it from the High Street and once you have passed the old post office you are flanked by drab modern buildings with the side of the Market Place to your right and that long block of shops and flats opposite.

But there are those two fine looking houses a little further along and then the Park Tavern which Peter decided to paint recording it before its latest makeover.

So with that as an incentive I thought I would revisit Passey Place but with the twist that we are back in the April of 1911 when it was called Park Place and it counted amongst its residents, a doctor, a retired Professor a rate collector, and an omnibus conductor.

And I shall be even more specific and point out that those two fine houses I admire were the homes of Mr Murphy the rate collector and Mr Hutchinson the omnibus conductor and by 1914 the first had become the Blackheath Conservatoire of Music and perhaps because of that the Hutchinson’s next door had moved out and a Mr Morris had moved in.*

But there was one constant and that was William Smith the publican of the Park Tavern who was pulling pints by 1911 and perhaps earlier.

He was 50 years old in the year we wandered down the road, had been born in Scotland and had married Mrs Smith in 1883.

And they shared the pub with young Beatrice Serres and Alfred Osborn.  Beatrice was just 19 came from Kent and was employed as a domestic servant and Alfred at 79 was still working as a carpenter.

On the opposite side of the road along with the Post Office and Methodist Chapel were a number of residents including Madame Cecilia Ronsard who described herself as a dressmaker.

So an interesting and mixed bag of people in what I suspect was a more gentle and interesting street.

And now The Park is the favourite pub of our Jill and Geoff which is yet another reason to rethink all I have ever said and thought about Passey Place.

Painting; The Park Tavern © 2015 Peter Topping 

Web: www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk

Facebook: Paintings from Pictures https://www.facebook.com/paintingsfrompictures

*The Post Office London Directory, 1914 & the 1911 census return for the  Park Tavern Enu 06 Eltham London

No one told me they were knocking down the Welcome Inn

True I was living in Manchester at the time and it was June 2006, but even so this place was part of my childhood, along with many others from Well Hall.

It is a pub I have written about already, particularly in a story exploring its history.*

And it was the first pub you spotted on the 161 coming in from Woolwich and after a long walk in the woods might well be the place to slack your thirst.

I first went in aged 17, pretending to be 18, and I guess because it was a quiet Wednesday afternoon we got away with it.

Today I shudder at the consequence for the landlord if we had been discovered by the police.

It was also where I first saw colour TV, in BBC 2, in the summer of 1968 when Wimbledon was being shown as a preview of what was to come.

But above all it will be of sitting in my bedroom late on a Sunday evening listening to the crowds walking back down Well Hall from the Welcome.

With the windows open on a warm summer’s night and the thought of school in the morning there was something very attractive about the happy groups making their noisy way home past our house at 294.

So I was pleased when John King posted these of the pub from June 2 2006.

His collection of images of south east London from the 1960s till now, continue to fascinate me and as ever I am indebted to him for granting permission to use them.

Location; Well Hall Road


Pictures; demolishing the Welcome Inn, June 2, 2006 from the collection of John King

*The Welcome Inn ................... the early days, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search?q=The+Welcome+Inn

The White Hart in Eltham, drinking back the years

Now today I am being rather lazy and have not dug deep in to our history to find out about the White Hart.

This I shall do, trawling the directories and the census returns but for now I shall just present these two images.

Chrissie took this image of the present pub earlier this year and I like the way she has caught the place just as the light is fading.

I haven’t been in there for a long time which is a shame because I read it has picked up some nice reviews.

That said I would rather like to have visited its predecessor which was still relatively new when it was photographed in 1909.

And for that matter the pub it replaced.  But that is just the romantic in me.

In the meantime you can always read about Elizabeth Jane Hunt who lived close by.*

Pictures; The White Hart today, © Chrissie Rose, 2014 and the White Hart in 1909, from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm

*With Elizabeth Jane Hunt and three children in a two roomed house in Eltham in 1911
http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/with-elizabeth-jane-hunt-and-three.html

Unlocking a little of the story behind that picture of the Kings Arms in Eltham

I am back on Eltham Hill at the Kings Arms, sometime at the beginning of the last century.

Now I have written about the pub and one of its landlords already so today I want to focus on what is going on.

We are still early enough in the history of photography for people to stop what they are doing and stare back with curiosity at the camera.

I have no way of knowing who these two men are, but the second with the striped apron is clearly a local shopkeeper personally delivering something to the saddlers.

Hand carts like these and the bigger delivery vans were a common sight and most who could afford expected tradesmen to deliver to the door.

In the same way builders, painters and other craftsmen who could afford it also had their hand carts or horse drawn carts.

I think judging from the shadows it is a summer’s afternoon and not a lot is stirring.

With a little more effort I should be able track down W Collins, along with saddler, and already the Dartford Brewery Company Ltd, date the picture to after July 1897 and 1924 which narrows the search to for W. Collins and Racknall the Sadler.

Location; Eltham












Picture; from the collection of Jean Gammons.

The old Man of Kent another of those lost pubs of Eltham

Now I am fairly confident in saying I never went in the Man of Kent on the High Street and of course I now never will.

If I am honest I do not know when it shut up shop but there will be someone out there who does and will no doubt tell me.  

The best I can do is sometime in the early 1990s which of course means it will have done just a century.*

It opened in 1888 and is still a fine looking building with its brick overhang, corner spire and iron work above the door.

That said I am still drawn to its predecessor which seems to offer up the potential for plenty of stories which I rather think I will pursue over the next few weeks.

Sadly I have no date for the picture nor does it feature in R...R.C. Gregory’s history of Eltham.

But like that won’t stop me digging into its past.

Picture; from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm

*And like all good requests, sure enough someone has come forward with the date 1991.  So thank you Elthampug who tweeted me today.  He remembers straw on the floor, now that I would have liked to have seen.