The secrets of the Old Road and the Isles …….. marl pits and water filled ponds

Now, we have lost most of the features of our rural past, here in Chorlton.

The Old Road, 2016

But just occasionally there are still a few hints of that past.

Of these there is the Old Road which stretches out from Chorlton across Turn Moss and on to Stretford.

I call it the Old Road, but most people will know it as Hawthorn Lane, although on official documents from the mid-19th century it was called Back Lane, while parts of it were also referred to as the Cut hole Lane and Town’s Bank.

It is somewhere I have written about in the past and keep coming back to.*

Once it will have been used by farmers transporting produce to the Duke’s Canal and the raised roadway underneath the canal’s aqueduct, bears witness to the need to protect pedestrians from passing wagons.

Even now, if you walk the route there is a sense that you are walking a country lane, with the overhanding trees, the remnants of hawthorn fences and the twisty nature of the lane.

And it is filled with history, starting with the site of Sally’s Hole, a pond which dates to at least the 18th century was only filled in, sometime in the 1960s.

The Old Road, circa 1900

That said, the scene on either side bears little witness to what it would have one looked like.

The mass of trees, and bushes would have been absent and instead the area was very much open land with the od avenue of trees.

And had you walked the lane two centuries ago you might well have caught sight of the “marl men” engaged in extracting marl from pits which was used to spread on the land.

Marl which contains carbonate of lime was a cheap substitute for lime and spreading it on the land would enhance the land’s fertility for up to twelve years.

Writing in 1899, H T Crofton in his book on Stretford, drew on older authorities who recorded that “most of the old pitsheads yet extant in the fields have been quarries whence marl has been obtained.

In marling, the gaffer of the pit, who controlled the falls and excavations, was called ‘My Lord’.  Passersby were solicited to contribute to the marling or shutting, or feast, at the conclusion of their laborer’s”.

Marl Pits, 1853

These pits could be quite substantial and involved clearing the top soil and then "‘shooting the pace’ which involved “making a broad way of a very easie ascent and descent for the convenience of fetching out the marl”.**

The degree to which this was a lucrative business can be seen in one legal dispute concerning the extraction of marl during the 17th century and the large number of pits in the area around Oswald and Longford roads, which was known as the Isles due to the larger number of pits and lazy watercourses which stretched out across the land.

The 1853 OS map shows plenty of these, and according to H T Crofton the area around what was once Firs Farm was similarly dug.

Most filled with water, and in time must have been a source of concern for parents.

Next; Firs Farm

Pictures; The Old Road, 2014, from the collection of Andrew Simpson, the Old Road, circa 1900, from the Lloyd Collection and detail from the 1841 OS Map of Lancashire courtesy of Digital Archives, http://www.digitalarchives.co.uk/


*The Old Road, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20Old%20Road

**A History of the Ancient Chapel of Stretford H T Crofton, 1899

Discovering Turn Moss Road …… that one with a little history

Turn Moss Road is the one that runs off Edge Lane and down onto Turn Moss.

Turn Moss Road, 2023

It’s a road that you could easily miss or just give a nod to on your way from Chorlton into Stretford.

That said it has some nice-looking properties and is marked by that giant sign which welcomes you to Trafford, with a smaller one announcing that you are about to enter Stretford which regularly attracts spray can enthusiasts and the odd individual unloading a ranger of stickers.

I doubt I would ever taken the road further if Ruth hadn’t posted “Do you know anything about Turn Moss Road? 

I live in one of the black and white ones, built around 1992. I’d love to know more about what was there before. I think there was a large house and grounds on Edge Lane that was demolished”.

She was responding to a story I had written on walking into Stretford in 1847.

Turn Moss Road, 1892

And her question intrigued me, because with the sun cracking the paving stones and a possible high of 31° predicted for today, I am not going anywhere.

The road shows up on all the old maps going back into the early 19th century and for most of its existence it was just a a lane leading to Turn Moss Farm.

There are pictures of the farm, and it also appears on the OS maps for the 1840s and 1880s and in the census returns as well as various books on the history of Stretford.

John Bailey in his book Old Stretford published in 1878 wrote that “Turf moss or Turn Moss in the low lying meadows or ees, is mentioned in one of the Mosley Wills in 1612".

It was and is likely to have always been a lonely house and is yet surrounded by embankments to protect it from the floods. 

In 1771, when the estate was on sale it contained "93 Lancashire acres”,  but by the mid 20th century its size had shrunk so that when Samuel Massey in his book A History of Stretford, 1976 reported that

“Turn Moss Farm. Formerly Turfe Moss Farm. The fields, few in number, surrounded the far. The farm was approached from Edge Lane and from Hawthorn Road. The cellars of the farm house were subject to flooding. The occupiers were dependant for water on a shallow well and rainwater tank.” 

Turn Moss from the Briscat with Turn Moss in the distance, 1950

But what has really brought the old farm back is one of Allan Brown’s stories, who remembers working there as a boy in the 1940s. 

He was one of the many young people who were encouraged to help out working on farms during the Second World War.

This was the period of “Dig for Victory” with food in short supply parks gardens and even the tops of air raid shelters were used to cultivate crops.

So, Allan did his bit walking from his home near the green down the old road, now more commonly known as Hawthorn Lane to the farm and a stint of voluntary war work.

I never asked Allan if he ever used Turn Moss Road but I suppose he will have done, and back then it was just a lane with the current development dating from the 1990s.

Westonby, Edge Lane, 1914

Go back into the late 19th century and maps show that the only buildings along the Stretford side of the road was a green house and outhouse which may have the stables for the large house now long gone which stood on Edge Lane.  

That house promises to be an interesting research project and in time may match Westonby that place still remembered as the Twilight Sleep Home for painless child birth.*

It still stands to the east of our road and is somewhere I am minded to return to.

And that is about it for now..

Picture; Turn Moss Road, 2023, courtesy of Google Maps, Turn Moss Road, 1892, from the OS mapd of Lancashire, 1892-94, Turn Moss,1950 from what was known as the Briscat which was a three acre piece of pasture which back in the 1840s had been part of the land George Whitelegg rented from the Egerton’s, W. Jackson from the Lloyd collection, Westonby and Edge Lane, 1914, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, m17757 courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass.

*Westonby, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search?q=westonby

Walking into Stretford along Edge Lane in 1847

Now if I wanted to walk to Stretford from the village in the late spring of 1847 I would have used the old road.

It started at Hardy Lane as a foot path twisted and turned its way following the course of the Brook at one point before skirting the church and green and going off across Turn Moss, under the Duke’s Canal and coming out at the pump opposite the Cock Inn.

It is a road I have written about before* so instead I think I will take Edge Lane which if you were at all of an inquisitive nature would be a better choice, for it offered you a chance of gazing over some fine houses.

So Edge Lane it is, starting at the green with its farmhouses and pubs and then out along the road which took you to the junction with High Lane.

Now I said it gave you a chance to gaze on some fine house but most of these are set back in their own gardens.  This is particularly true of Longford house the home of the Walker family from the early 19th century.

They too are a family who I have written about, Thomas Walker was a Manchester politician, radical and businessman who is buried in the parish church yard, and his son Charles was a noted author.  But there home like its successor Longford Hall was some distance away from the road and not therefore easily visible.

Nor so Edge House home of George and Mary Bannister who farmed 150 acres of land and employed eight men.  Their home was up a long winding lane set in an orchard.

There were of course more humble homes, along the way which were lived in by James Cain, carpenter,James Hodcroft, market gardener and William Barlow florist.

And then there was Peel House, the last before the canal.  I think it dates from after the 1830s, had its own lodge house, orchard and gardens and was the home of Norbury family who included an inspector of houses, a retired cotton merchant and a solicitor’s clerk.

I would have liked to have seen Peel House, and there are photographs but these are the property of Trafford Libraries who guard their copyright.  Had I arrived just a few years earlier in Manchester and I might have seen the building for myself, but it was demolished in 1967.

Like all such walks what you saw depended on when you walked the walk.

So a little earlier in the decade and there would a have been a few meaner cottages, while  just into the next decade and beyond Peel House the home of Thomas Massey who lived by the new railway station and was employed as a railway porter.

Fast forward just another 30 years and this end of Edge Lane would have been dominated by a series of large houses with impressive sounding names like Standish House, Fern Bank, Wansbeck House and Beech House.

But the 1880s and 90s are out of my comfort zone, I as many know prefer to walk the fields and lanes of the township in the years before 1850.

So I shall close with a place that would have been easily accessible both from the old road and Edge Lane and this was Turn Moss Farm. It is mentioned in some of the histories of Stretford, was the subject of plenty of photographs and is remembered by my old friend Alan Brown who worked for the farmer during the last war.  Bu that is a story for another time.

Location; Chorlton, Manchester

*http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/The%20Old%20Road
**http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/childhood-memories-of-war-service-farm.html

Pictures; detail of Edge Lane from the OS map of Lancashire 1841-53, and Hennet’s map of Lancashire 1830 courtesy of Digital Archives, http://www.digitalarchives.co.uk/ and looking across Turn Moss circa 1950s, from the collection of David Bishop

That rural scene in the heart of Chorlton …….

Of course, the title would not pass the test of accuracy, given that we are actually just over the border into Stretford and the description rural is stretching it a bit.

But you would be forgiven into thinking that with the fields, cows and church spire we could be in the sort of landscape loved by Constable.

And in as much as it will never be built on and there were cows it could be sort of rural, and that was just what I thought when I came across the scene in 1979.

I was standing on the top of the weir built to protect the Duke’s Canal from a flood surge and rebuilt in the 1840s after it’s failed to stem the storm waters. 

Then and now I still enjoy the view, and while the pool in front of the weir can shrink it never quite goes away and after a wet period will fill up.

As for the church spire it is not some medieval church but was built when Stretford cemetery was opened in 1885.

All of that said I like the spot.

And it does have echo of the past, because if you ignore the cemetery to the right and the spire, the view would not look so different to someone standing on the same spot in the 1850s.

Back then.much of this land was meadowland.

Location; looking out from the weir in the bend of the river

Pictures; a lost rural scene, 1979 from the collection of Andrew Simpson

Sad stories of the deaths at Sally's Pond..... out on Turn Moss …….

This is the newspaper report on the death of Samuel Wood, for which Chris Geliher sent over to me about an hour ago.

Manchester Evening News, 1887

Chris added that “I came across this and thought it might be of interest to you Andrew if you haven't already seen it. It comes from the Manchester Evening News and is dated July 14th 1887”. 

Now I hadn’t and the story drew me.

Sally's Hole, Sally's Pond, 1958

Sally’s Hole was a pond on Turn Moss, whose name is lost centuries ago but the popular understanding was that a young woman named Sally downed in the water and that the death was suicide.

It is a place I often write about.”*

Today despite being filled in sometime in the 1960s the location can still be found just off the old carter’s track that leads out across the meadows to Stretford.

It surrounded by trees and overgrown vegetation and get there just as the light is fading and it sems a foreboding place which even in summer is dank and dark, and standing there offers up an unsettling feeling where anything is possible.

Alas the trees and vegetation are relatively new and instead through the 19th century and beyond the pond was in an open space with views in all directions, but even so it had a reputation as a place not to linger.

Travis Street, 1916

But linger I did  and began looking for the three named individuals who played a part in the story.  Woods, turned out to be Samuel Woods who was living on Travis Street in 1884 and paying a weekly rent of six shillings which was a cut above most of the rents paid.  

The street is still there running from Fairfield Street to London Road, but all the houses have gone, and today it is bordered at one end by part of the Mayfield Railway station and with the rest being grass verges hiding a series of nondescript car parks.

And so far that is about it for Mr. Wood, sadly the genealogical platforms show that he shares no one who has claimed his as a relative.

And another account, 1887

As for Henry Mellor he was 21 when he came across the body and described himself as a “gardener domestic” living with his parents on Chorlton Green.

PC Hobden has yet to come out of the shadows, but his records may be in the archives of the Greater Manchester Police Museum, and there is more on Henrry Mellor.

And I bet the two of them will have talked about the incident and in doing so rekindled the scary mystery of Sally’s Hole.

Leaving me just to thank Chris, who turned up another press cutting which allows a little more detail and the chance of more researc,

Picture; Sally’s Field, J Montgomery, 1958, copied from a 1945 photograph, m80104, Travis Street, 1916, m10665, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

*Sally's Hole,  https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search?q=sally%27s+hole

The Old Road in the 1890s

Now the Old Road has always been special to me. 

It ran from Hardy Lane down past the Brook into the village by the church and then off across Turn Moss to Stretford.

Over the years it has had many names and bits of it have been renamed from time to time.

Strictly speaking it was never known as the old road for there are equally old roads, lanes and track ways which ran out of the township.

But unlike the others it has retained much of its rural character.  True if you start at Hardy Lane you are presented with a modern road followed by the “stumps” which lead into the ville and the stretch past the school, round the church and along Ivygreen Road is pretty urban, but where it becomes Hawthorn Lane it still has the power to transport you back to the early 19th century.

Here it becomes a narrow twisty lane with the remains of hedges along its path, the 18th century weir clearly visible through the trees and finally the raised platform underneath the canal built to protect travellers from the farm wagons passing on their way to Stretford.

All of which makes this picture and those to follow over the next few weeks rather special.  They capture something of the charm and magic of the old road.  This one is from around 1890.  Despite the fashions of the couple staring at the camera which dates it to the late 19th century it could be any time over the last few hundred years.

The horse and cart add to the almost timelessness of the image, but hard by where the road ran into Stretford was a modern railway line, and just over a mile and a bit in the other direction was new Chorlton with its rows of recently built houses catering for the middling people who travelled into town from the newly opened Chorlton train station but still lacked the idea of living on the edge of the countryside.

Location;Chorlton

Picture; from the Lloyd collection

The mystery cuts in stone at the end of the Old Road ........ walking Chorlton in the 1760s

Now anyone who walks the Old Road which meanders on the edge of Turn Moss will know that eventually you will reach the Cut Hole Aqueduct which takes the Duke's Canal over the Kickety Brook.

The mark of the mason, circa 1760s

The aqueduct was built in the 1760s and any one taking the Old Road would have gone under its arches on their way to Stretford, ending up at the Cock Inn and the Pump.

At which point I have to confess that the Old Road is my name for what has variously been known as Hawthorn Lane and Back Lane, but given that this is a very old thoroughfare I shall continue to call it the Old Road.

What I had never spotted on the stonework were the mason’s marks, which have a history going back beyond the Middle Ages.

Left in stone, circa 1760s

I have no idea just what they mean, but I know someone will, and my fascination is shared by my old friend David Bishop who photographed them and passed them onto me.

And never one to miss an opportunity of a story here they are.

David has promised me more and I wait with impatience.

Of course given all the controversy “over that plan” for Turn Moss I rather think plenty of people will also be interested.

The Old Road and aqueduct, 1854

All of which leaves me to add this 1854  map of the Old Road as it reaches the aqueduct, pointing also to the weir which was built in the 18th century to slow down flood water from the Mersey flowing fast to the Duke’s Canal and damaging it.

The weir was badly damaged in the 1840s and had to be rebuilt, after which it continued to protect the aqueduct and the canal until the last serious flood in 1915.

Location; The Old Road

Pictures; mason’s marks on the stone of Cut Hole Aqueduct, 2018 courtesy of David Bishop, and the Old Road from the 1854 OS for Lancashire, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/

Who will mourn Sally's place on Turn Moss?

Once pretty much everyone in Chorlton would have known where Sally died.

Sally's Hole, 1945

It was one of those stories to terrify young children and act as a warning never to play by open water.

And the lesson was equally, young women should never put your trust in a young man who offers the sky but delivers nothing, because as the story went young Sally fell in love but was abandoned and in her utter despair drowned in the large pond on Farm Moss, which was a field of five acres beside the Old Road.*

Just how long ago the tragedy happened is unknown but the pond became known as Sally’s Hole and later Sally's Pond and was a popular place for kids to play as late as the 1960s.

The pond in 1845

By then sadly it was also popular as a place to dump old bikes, discarded milk crates and the odd dead cat.

All of which meant that it was eventually filled in, but the hollow can still be seen by anyone who ventures off the lane.

In the 1840s the pond and the field were farmed by William Whitelegg who rented it from the Egerton estate.

Mr Whitelegg was also the landlord of the Bowling Green pub and went onto build those two fine houses on Edge Lane opposite the church.

And now if I have done my geography correctly Sally’s last resting place will be “the Grass Running Rounds” which form part of the master plan for the redevelopment of Turn Moss.

Leaving me just to wonder who will mourn for Sally and the place she died.

Picture; Sally’s Field, J Montgomery, 1958, copied from a 1945 photograph, m80104, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass and detail from the Tithe Map for Chorlton, 1847

*Hawthorn Lane

Turn Moss ...... a plan, a protest and a question

Now I am always a little concerned when I read a developer referring to “community use” in a plan they are proposing.

The Old Road, Hawthorn Lane, 2010

At which point I have to say this is not an attack on developers.

We all live in properties and on estates which were once the dream of a developer, whether it be the piecemeal development around Beech Road, the planned estate which is Chorltonville or any one of those ribbon developments  along Edge Lane, Wilbraham Road and the roads off.

All of which brings me to the issue of the day which are the plans to develop part of Turn Moss into playing fields for the UA92 university and Salford City FC.

I have to admit until recently this passed me by, but it has received increasing press coverage,* is in the Master Plan for Stretford** and has now been the subject of a planning application.***

Added to which there is now a community based action group opposed to  the existing plans which has organised a demonstration this afternoon at Turn Moss Car Park, meeting at 2pm.****

Turn Moss was and still is on the flood plain of the Mersey, although modern flood prevention has mitigated much of the earlier flooding which could create a lake 3 miles across.

For this reason much of the land was farmed as pasture or arable, with sections on the Chorlton side used for meadow farming.

Some of the land has long been given over to football pitches but reading the various accounts of the plans to develop I have a sense that what is proposed will change the area.

The Briscat, 1950

One application talks of a new floodlit artificial football pitch, perimeter trim trail and cycle path, a children's play area, a cafe and refurbished sports changing facilities for community use.

These will be accompanied by  the development of a new football training facility including 3 training pitches, a goalkeeper training pitch, running mounds, and a changing office facility, and gym  together with associated landscaping, lighting, fencing, drainage, overspill car parking area, highways alterations and other works.***

I am not sure how this will impact on Mr and Mrs Trellis and their Sunday walk with Bowser the dog or any of the impact on nearby residents who use it to enjoy the wildlife, and a stroll.

The Master Plan for Stretford mentions it just twice, once on page 27 and again on page 49 with the rather unhelpful “There is an opportunity to provide enhanced outdoor sport facilities at Turn Moss Playing Fields. 

This will include potential training facilities to this site alongside delivery of a range of improvements to facilities that are accessible to the local community”.**

To be fair the report covers a wide range of development plans which look to tackle some of the serious issues related to the area, but its comments on the Moss are vague.

So that leaves me falling back on the planning application pondering that "community use" and a wish to to talk to those who are most concerned.

Sadly I won’t be there this afternoon, ..... a busted knee makes a wander out less than pleasant.

But I will be looking forward to getting the reports, and while I wait the story of the day, the historian in me ponders on the great Mass Trespass event of 1932 when a group of Ramblers asserted their right to walk across Kinder Scout.

This some may mutter is over the top, but you can never be too assertive when it comes to defending what has become a community asset.

Well we shall see.

Location; Turn Moss

Pictures; the old road, Hawthorn Lane, 2011 from the collection of Andrew Simpson, and the Briscat, Turn Moss, 1950, W Jackson from the Lloyd Collection

* Gary Neville's plans to build football training pitches face red card amid green belt row, Jennifer Williams, February 14, 2018, https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gary-nevilles-plans-build-football-14286686

**The Refreshment of the Stretford Master Plan, Trafford Council,Final Draft, January 2018, http://www.trafford.gov.uk/residents/community/partnerships-and-communities/consultations/stretford-masterplan/docs/Refreshed-Stretford-Masterplan-Final-Draft-January-2018.pdf 

***Alterations to Turn Moss Playing Fields, Trafford Planning Portal, 93628/FUL/18, https://publicaccess.trafford.gov.uk/online-applications/pagedSearchResults.do?action=page&searchCriteria.page=1

****Friends of Turn Moss, facebook.