Showing posts with label Well Hall in the 1920s. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Well Hall in the 1920s. Show all posts

Friday, 30 May 2025

So what is the story behind the tram on Well Hall Road, one sunny spring day?

Now there is a fine line between nostalgia and remembering the past.

The first pretty much takes you nowhere and often distorts the past by making it seem somehow better than it was.

On the other hand remembering the past can trigger not only a series of memories but leads to wanting to find out more.

It often starts with that simplest of questions was this really how it was? And then takes you off into serious history which involves talking to others, cross checking their memories against research and beginning to record it for others to read.

And that often leads to community projects where memories and memorabilia come out of the cupboards, are dusted down and shared which not only adds to what we know but brings an area together, allowing the not so young to recreate the past for those too young to know what it had been like.

So here we are with one of those classic old pictures of Well Hall from a book on trams.*

There is no date on the picture, and the caption just says “early days on Well Hall Road [showing] that the local children had plenty of space to play.  All they had to do was get out of the way of the trams which plied the route every ten minutes. The ride from Woolwich to Eltham would have cost two pence.”

All of which draws you in and makes the picture worth investigating.

Judging by the trees and the children’s clothes I think we must be somewhere in the 1920s or 30s and taking into account the shadows it will be early afternoon.

Now it could be a Sunday which would explain the lack of traffic or we really are at a point in time when Well Hall Road was far less busy.

What I also find interesting is that the children by and large are ignoring the photographer.

Earlier in the century and certainly in the last decade of the 19th century the appearance of a man with a camera would have attracted the curious, the vain and those with nothing better to do.

You see them on the old pictures staring back at the camera, intrigued, mystified and just nosey.  But not here, which means we are either dealing with some very sophisticated young people or the world has moved on and street photographers were taken for granted.

And that just leaves me that little personal observation that however fascinating this picture is it just leaves off our house for the photographer has positioned himself just a tad further north, missing out 294 by a couple of blocks.

That said if I have got this right I have to satisfy myself with knowing that the corner house with its ever so fashionable lace curtains was the home of Mr and Mrs Burton in 1925.

The Burton’s were there by 1919 which means that Mr Christopher Dove Burton may have been an Arsenal worker, and just as an aside, I know that they were married in 1920 in Lambeth, and that Beatrice’s maiden name was Briant and it was as Miss Beatrice Briant that she shows up on the electoral roll in 1919 sharing the house with Mr Burton.

Now there is a story to follow up.

Pictures; Well Hall Road, date unknown, from the collection of G.L. Gundy, reproduced from Eltham and Woolwich Tramways

*Eltham and Woolwich Tramways, Robert J Harley, Middleton Press, 1996, https://www.middletonpress.co.uk/

Monday, 7 April 2025

The Welcome Inn ................... the early days

Now some stories just have a habit of not wanting to go away.

They stay hanging around challenging you to go off and discover something new to add to what has already been said.

And so it is with the Welcome Inn which every time I feature the pub strikes a chord with many people usually about my age.

In particular it is tales of Sunday nights which continue to bubble up enriched by the memories of meeting future husbands or lasting friends.

And I should know because while I was just that bit too young to drink I would listen to the happy crowds coming back down Well Hall Road past our house in the mid 60s a little after closing time.

More recently I began looking for the history of the place, and while a few people were able to offer up names of past landlords the very early history of the pub proved illusory.

And then my old friend, fellow researcher and local historian Tricia Leslie told me about The Woolwich Story by E.F. E. Jefferson.

It is as she promised me a wonderful account of the Borough from the earliest of times up to its merger with Greenwich.

I have already used the book and know I shall go on plundering it for some time to come.

So in the chapter on the 1920s I came across this “On the brow of the hill stood a large wooden building used as a workmen’s club but demolished about 1927 when the Welcome Inn was built.  

This modern hostelry set new standards in both furnishing and service.  Seated in comfort, one had to preserve patience until the waiter came to take the order, for customers were not permitted to get their own drinks at the bar. 


But this arrangement proved too leisurely, annoyed those who only had time for a quick one and tended generally toward the restraint of trade. A wise host discontinued the practice.”

Now I have no idea when that service was discontinued but I well remember the practice was still in use in some of the big Manchester pubs in the late 1960s, with the waiters in white jackets and in some rooms a bell push to summon assistance.

Sadly there are few photographs of the waiters or indeed the interiors and it would be nice if any could be shared of the Welcome in its heyday.

So that is it.  I now know when the pub was open which was clearly aimed at the Progress Estate and the new build going up behind the pub and the appeal is out for pictures.

We shall see what we get.

But in the meantime I shall go looking at the electoral registers which will give us the names of the landlords or landladies from when it opened through to the 1960s.

Location, Eltham

Picture; the site of the Welcome courtesy of Jean and the cover of The Woolwich Story

Saturday, 8 March 2025

The postcard to Eltham ….. the search for Miss Williams ….. and a house on Arsenal Road

I doubt that Auntie Edith would ever have thought that her picture postcard sent from Looe in Cornwall in July 1933 would be the subject of a search through the historical records 90 years later.

The card was addressed to a Miss Williams of Arsenal Road and that set me off.  For the house was one of those built for the Royal Arsenal workers and is part of the estate that I grew up on.

So, not only Eltham, but Well Hall and the Progress Estate.  

The comment on the back picks up on the message that holiday makers in Looe will not have to spend much money, with “we should come home with all our money.  I don’t think.”

Miss Williams is still lurking in the shadows.  I know that she was there in the house in 1933, but six years later it is vacant.  

And back in 1921 the property was occupied by Mr. and Mrs. Lavin. William Earl  was 57 years old, from Northamptonshire  and described his occupation as a “Collector” for Saye Machine Co Ltd, while May Jane was a year older and was born in Birmingham. 

The closest definition in the Ministry of Labour’s 1921 dictionary for a “Collector salesman” was   a canvasser who also collects weekly or monthly payments for goods sold on installment system.

The firm appears to have employed four others but here it gets tricky because while each suggests that they were related to sewing machines, their listed employer has a different name.

And so far, that is where the trail peters out.  There are other William Lavin’s but none which fit the profile.

But something will turn up it always does, sadly not today.

All of which takes me back to that house on Arsenal Road and what it might tell us about the early history of the estate.  I have always wondered at what point those houses ceased to be homes for Royal Arsenal workers.  The huge run down of employment at the factory in the immediate post wars years will have meant that new tenants were drawn from other occupations.

In time I will go looking for the electoral registers for Arsenal Road to see if we can track the residents of the property, but for now I am left with that picture postcard.

Location’ Arsenal Road, Eltham, London and Looe in Cornwall

Pictures; You Went Get Stung, 1933, from the collection of David Harrop

Thursday, 1 August 2024

One hundred years of one house in Well Hall part 25 ……. where did all the Royal Arsenal workers go?

This is the continuing story of one house in Well Hall Road and of the people who lived there including our family. *

294 Well Hall Road, 2014
Now pretty much everyone will know the old Progress Estate was built for Royal Arsenal workers, was completed in under a year, and remains a fine example of a Garden City Suburb.

We lived at 294 Well Hall Road from 1964 and continued to call it home for over 30 years.

And as you do I have long wondered about the story of our “Progress House”.  

A few years ago, using street directories and electoral registers I tracked those who called it home from when it was built till, we moved and occasionally have talked with more recent residents.

But what has always interested me was just how long the estate remained primarily the home of Royal Arsenal workers.

Some I guess remained there particularly with the outbreak of the Second World War, but others will have moved on.

The Bullet Shop, Royal Arsenal, circa 1914-1918
So, I know that the Nunn family who lived in our house in 1916, had moved on four years later returning to Ipswich.  

Mr Nunn was a blacksmith and with the end of the Great War, he moved back to Suffolk where he died in 1946.

The task of discovering subsequent occupiers of 294 will always be a tad more difficult, mainly because while we can find their names, their personal stories are blocked by considerations of data protection, which means some records are closed for 100 years.

But the 1921 census came online at the start of the year and we now know more about Mr. and Mrs Rendle and their children.

Looking down Shooters Hill, 1909
They moved in to 294 in 1919 and it was at this point that the link with the Royal Arsenal was broken, because Alfred Rendle was a Police Detective at Shooters Hill Police Station.

We can follow his career from when he left Gosport in Hampshire in 1910 for Stratford in Essex where his last two children were born in 1914 and 1918.

 Around 1916 the family were in in Leyton in east London, and in Cray in 1939 where described himself as a “Retired Police Officer”.

Our house in 1974
It would be interesting to find out if his children stayed in Eltham, and equally when other houses on the estate severed their links with The Royal Arsenal.

And that last thought might be assisted by people who have access to their deeds and who can offer up names which can be checked against the 1921 census.

We shall see.

Pictures; 294 Well Hall Road in 2014 courtesy of Chrissie Rose, inside the Royal Arsenal from the collection of Mark Flynn, The Bullet Factory, W H Kingsway, http://www.manchesterpostcards.com/index.html and from The story of Royal Eltham, R.R.C. Gregory, 1909 and published on The story of Royal Eltham, by Roy Ayers, http://www.gregory.elthamhistory.org.uk/bookpages/i001.htm

*One hundred years of one house on Well Hall Road, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/One%20hundred%20years%20of%20one%20house%20in%20Well%20Hall


Saturday, 25 May 2024

Well Hall in the 1920s nu 1 ........... catching the train and watching out for the cows

A short occasional series on Well Hall in the 1920s.

Now I washed up in Eltham in the spring of 1964 and for two and half years made the daily  train journey back to New Cross and Samuel Pepys School which continued until I switched to Crown Woods.

I didn’t like Samuel Pepys over much and the trip from Well Hall to New Cross and back was pretty much the best bit of the day.

Even now I have fond memories of seeing the woods above out house come into view ast thetrain took that final bend and came into the station.

The trains were always packed but there was something about knowing you were coming home to Well Hall.

And I suspect Mr Jefferson may have shared that feeling, so here are some of his memories of the same station just 40 or so years before I used the station.

They are taken from the book he published in 1970.

“The railway station was called simply ‘Well Hall’ when we came and the platforms were not so long as they are now.  

A workman’s ticket cost 8d return to London and early workers making their way past the tumbledown ‘Well Hall’ which is now the Pleasaunce would frequently be hindered by cows coming up hawthorn-hedged Kidbrooke Lane and turning in at the wide gate in Well Hall Road.”*

Location; Well Hall

Picture; the railway bridge over Well Hall Road, 2014, from the collection of Chrissie Rose

*The Woolwich Story, E.F.E. Jefferson, 1970 page 202

Thursday, 5 October 2023

Playing on the Nine Fields, all the way from Well Hall to Kidbrooke

Kidbrook Lane in 1872 with the Nine Fields to the north
Now I know there will be people who know of the existence of the Nine Fields just beyond Well Hall out towards Kidbrooke.

But I think there will not be that many, and certainly now few who will have played on them

Their existence was unknown to me and it was my friend Jean who set me off on a search for them.

She rememberd that “my father told me there were fields stretching from Well Hall Road from the Catholic Church,right across to Kidbrook, before the Kidbrooke estate was built. 

Dad was talking about the 1920s when he was growing up at 47 Lovelace Green.”

And with the power of the internet there almost as soon as I started was a reference to the open land that was called Nine Fields, before the Page Brook estate was built.  Moreover she remembered that they were one vast children’s play area.  At one time small bi-planes were there offering cheap flights.”*

And in turn this led me on to an excellent description of the estates being built in the 1920.**

In the great sweep of world history I grant you that this little discovery is hardly earth shattering, but for people like me who have wandered that bit of Eltham and my sister who lives on Bournbrook Road it remains an interesting insight into what was and what has now gone.

Even more so because when we washed up on Well Hall Road in the 1960s those fields were still within living memory.

Now I am not so sure.

Location, Eltham, London

*Lily Tyrrell (Brown), from Eltham, Mottingham, New Eltham SE9
Royal Borough of Greenwich, http://www.thisiseltham.co.uk/lilyTyrrell.php
**Municipal Dreams, http://municipaldreams.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/page_estate_eltham/

And in turn this led me on to an excellent description of the eststaes being built in the 1920.** http://municipaldreams.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/page_estate_eltham/

Picture; detail from the OS for London 1862-72, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://www.digitalarchives.co.uk/