Tuesday, 31 May 2016

In Southern Cemetery .......... uncovering a little more of Leading Seaman Ernest Thistlewood who fought at Jutland

Long Service medal
This is the long standing medal awarded to Ernest Robert Thistlewood who served with the Royal Navy from 1896-1919.

Like so much research his story turns on just a day, because only yesterday I had to admit I knew little about him other than that he was on HMS Royal Oak at the Battle of Jutland on May 31 1916.*

And even that assertion was based only on the presence of a sweet heart badge with the name Royal Oak which was amongst his medals.

A day later and another trawl of the records turned up his Royal Navy service record and with that he has stepped out of the shadows.

He was born in Birmingham in 1878 and at the age of 18 he gave up his job as a “shop boy" for a life at sea.

During the course of which he served on 21 ships and naval stations and on May 1 1916 joined the crew of HMS Royal Oak on the day it was commissioned.

On May 30 she sailed out of Scapa Flow joined the British Grand Fleet and participated in the Battle of Jutland.

Sweet Heart Badge
And Ernest was there at the battle, and continued on HMS Royal Oak till he was demobbed in 1919.

The record shows that he had re-enlisted in 1910 for a further five years was promoted to Leading Seamen and throughout his career was described a “very good” sailor.

Now no pictures of him have surfaced but his military records show he was just over 5 feet in height had light brown hair, brown eyes and a “fresh sallow” complexion.

And there the trail gets just a little confused because there appears to be another Ernest Robert born in Birmingham who married Ada Mary Carl at the Holy Trinity Church in Mile End in 1908.

The collection of medals
All the bits fit except that he gave his occupation as a Fireman and was based at the Fire Station in Great Marlborough Street.

Now this could still be him, and I may have miss read the naval record which may suggest a break in service.

If this is him then they had two children born in 1910 and 1911 and he died in 1963 in Ruislip with Ada surviving him by seven years.

Of course any one who has done any family research will not be surprised at this turn of events and there are still clues which may help firm up the story.

Some of the display at Southern Cemetery
But for now I am pleased that a little bit more of the detail behind those medals has come to light, and I will pass on the information to David Harrop who maintains the exhibition at the Remembrance Lodge in Southern Cemetery.

David has just finished a new display to mark the centenary of the Battle of the Somme which began in July 1916.**

Some of the exhibits are not only related to that battle but are from men who are either buried or commemorated in Southern Cemetery.

Location; Southern Cemetery

Pictures; medals of Leading Seamam E R Thistlewood, 1896-119, from the collection of David Harrop

**In Southern Cemetery with a little bit of the Battle of Jutland ........ and a story still to be revealed, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/in-southern-cemetery-with-little-bit-of.html


** Coming Soon ......... an exhibition in Southern Cemetery ........... remembering the Battle of the Somme, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/coming-soon-exhibition-in-southern.html

Remembering Joseph Thomas from Chorlton who died in the Great War

I wonder just how many of these small replicas of the Cenotaph still exist.

They would have been made in their thousands and displayed on mantle pieces and in cabinets across the country.

Some will have evoked proud memories of a war fought well but for many more they must have been a painful reminder of a lost loved one who died on some faraway battlefield or out at sea.

The end of the Second World War may have given them a renewed significance but as we passed into the long years of peace and growing prosperity most will have been consigned to a back room, and finally laid to rest in a suitcase in the attic.

And in the way of these things those that weren’t thrown away will have been given to a jumble sale and by degree made their way into a collection.

Of course the personal story which went with each will have been lost.

Joseph Thomas, circa 1914-15
But not this one.

This one I can trace to a family and the young Joseph Thomas who was born in 1894 and died on the Western Front in 1917.*

Joseph grew up in Chorlton-cum-Hardy and  worked for Richard Haworth & Co Ltd who had offices at 19 Cooper Street.

The building has long gone but it faced the Town Hall close to where the Cenotaph now stands.

And like many other young men working in the offices of the city he enlisted in one of the Pal’s Battalions.

The first had been raised in the August in a few days and Joseph enlisted in the second city battalion that September.

This was the 17th Manchester’s which after basic training left for France in the November of the following year.

I doubt I would ever have come across him had it not been for a picture postcard he sent to his brother.

The post card asked for an advance till pay day and alerted the family that he was coming home on leave.

At that stage all I had was his brother’s name and address but that was enough to begin to uncover the story of the family and shed light on the young man who just signed himself Joe.

By the end of the afternoon his early career was clear along with the details of his enlistment and a photograph of ten soldiers one of whom I guessed was Joseph.

The rest as they say just fell into place.

Within an hour of posting the story Nicola and Steven had been in touch and were able to identify young Joseph which in turn led to a meeting at which they showed me a collection of family material including photographs, certificates and the replica Cenotaph.

And that I think is a good point to close.

Of all the memorabilia I have come across from the Great War this replica Cenotaph brings me very close to the loss the Thomas family must have felt.

Picture; replica Cenotaph circa 1920s from the collection of Nicola O’Niel and detail from the picture postcard showing young Joseph, circa 1914-15 from the collection of David Harrop

*Uncovering the story of Joseph Thomas of Chorlton born 1894, died 1917 on the Western Front, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Chorlton%20and%20the%20Great%20War

Walking with Christ Church Mission in Harpurhey

Now there will be many who have fond memories of walking in a Whit Walk procession.

It was a time when families decked out their children in the finest new clothes.  For some it was about saving all year and for others it was  period of going into debt.

Either way it was a badge of pride that your child would take part in the best that could be bought or made.

It is a topic I have visited in the past and will do again.*

And here today is one from sometime in the early 20th century. The banner announces that this is the Christ Church Mission in Harpurhey, and that is pretty much all I have.

In time I will go looking for the Church and puzzle over the street name on the right hand side of the picture.

I am rather hoping that someone will have something on the church and will share it.

Of course it might not be a Whit Walk procession.

But for now that is it.

Location; Harpurhey



Picture; Harpurhey, date unknown from the collection of David Harrop


From pints and cocktails to divan beds and designer saucepans ............ down at the Throstles Nest

2016
Never let it be said that in the full pursuit of recording our changing landscape Andy Robertson ever gives up on a building.

Regular readers will know that he has been engaged in a long term project of chronicling many of our old pubs, warehouses and factories just as they are about to disappear.

2014
It has taken him out across Greater Manchester in all weathers and sometimes to the same spot several times in a year.

And here are two of his pictures showing the transformation of the Throstles Nest on Seymour Grove.

Location; Seymour Grove

Pictures; the rear of the Throstles Nest in 2014 and 2016, from the collection of Andy Robertson

Monday, 30 May 2016

In Southern Cemetery with a little bit of the Battle of Jutland ........ and a story still to be revealed

These are the medals of Leading Seaman ER Thistlewood and from today they will be on display at the Remembrance Lodge in Southern Cemetery.

The medals
They form part of the ongoing exhibition of memorabilia from the two world wars and some at least of the letters pictures and medals are connected with men and women who are buried in the cemetery or are commemorated there.

As yet I know nothing more of Leading Seaman Thistlewood.  I have seen the official page showing the details of his medals but that is it.

If I had a first name it might be possible to take the search further.

But I know that he was awarded the long service medal along with the 1914-15 Star which means that he was on active service from the very beginning of the war.

HMS Royal Oak, 1937
And I know that he was at the Battle of Jutland when the Royal Navy’s Grand Fleet and the German High Seas Fleet met in what proved to be an inconclusive confrontation and one still riven with controversy.

Both sides claimed victory with the Germans arguing that they had sunk more British ships and the Royal Navy pointing out that the High Seas Fleet never sought a return match, stayed in harbour leaving the British to maintain the naval blockade of Germany.

On that day Leading Seaman Thistlewood was on board HMS Royal Oak which had been launched in the November of 1914 and commissioned on May 1 1916.

Sweet Heart badge
All of which meant that as it sailed out of Scapa Flow exactly a century ago it was brand new.

The following day she took part in the battle and engaged two German ships causing some damage.

Now I assume Leading Seaman Thistlewood was on board because along with the medals there is his sweetheart badge from the Royal Oak which he would have given his girlfriend.

Of course it may just be that he served on the ship at a later date but given that 1914-15 Star I think it is most likely he was there.

An earlier exhibition at the Remembrance Lodge
So for now that is it.

As I write David Harrop who maintains the collection at the Lodge will be there preparing for his new exhibition commemorating the Battle of the Somme which began in July of 1916.

Entitled For the Fallen it will include medals, letters as well as pictures from the Somme along with links to men who fought at the battle and are remembered in the Cemetery.

Location Southern Cemetery.

Pictures; medals of Leading Seamam E R Thistlewood, 1914-22, from the collection of David Harrop, and HMS Royal Oak, 1937 from HMS Royal Oak, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Royal_Oak_(08)



* Coming Soon ......... an exhibition in Southern Cemetery ........... remembering the Battle of the Somme, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/coming-soon-exhibition-in-southern.html

Walking through Chorlton on Medlock with a church procession

Now I don’t have a date for this church procession or exactly where in Chorlton on Medlock it took place.*

It was taken by Harry Wright who had a photographic studio at 27 Eston Street which was off High Street which ran from Plymouth Grove to Oxford Street.

It is still there but High Street is now Hathersage Road and the photographic studio long gone.

Sadly no one seems to have judged Eston Street worthy of a picture and the only two in the digital archive show just the corner.

But I am hoping that someone will recognise the street scene and perhaps even offer a date.

And perhaps that shop and the advert beside the Brook Bond sign will help.


We shall see.

Location; Chorltonon Medlock

Picture;Chorlton on Medlock, date unknown from the collection of David Harrop

*Manchester Whit Walks, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Manchester%20Whit%20Walks

** Manchester Local Image Collection, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=36700&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=30483

Sunday, 29 May 2016

The lost pubs of Levenshulme ............. nu 1 The Midway Hotel

Before 1904
Now here are two interesting pictures of the Midway Hotel  which deserve plenty of research.

Doris sent the picture postcard to Miss Greaves of 9 Bristol Avenue, Levenshulme on January 13 1906.

It would seem that Doris had heard that Miss Greaves wanted a picture of the two buildings which made sense given that the old pub had been demolished to make way for the new one which had been opened just two years earlier.

In time I think I will delve deep into the history of the two pubs but for now will content myself with this extract from that excellent site the Pubs of Manchester.

After 1904
“The Midway was rebuilt in 1904 as this imposing pub at the junction of Matthews Lane and Stockport Road in Levenshulme.  

The original Midway dates back an impressive 300 years earlier, first licensed in 1604 and shown here as Midway House in 1900 and 1902 just before its replacement (1907).  

To the left of the Midway is a supermarket car park which was once a bowling green,.

Sadly, the Midway has closed and has been taken over by an obscure college having been a cash & carry at some point previously.  The pub may have had an Irish name in the 1990s but I'm not sure.”

2015
And if you want to check out what has happened to a whole range of our once busy and popular buildings now down on their luck or just transformed I always go to the images of Andy Robertson who as regular readers will know has been recording the pubs, warehouses, and mills of Greater Manchester along with those posh places.

And sure enough he had been down in Levenshulme and caught this one of the Hotel last year.

Location; Levenshulme

Pictures; the Midway Hotel 1904 from the collection of David Harrop and the Midway in 2014 courtesy of Andy Robertson

*Manchester Pubs, http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/midway-stockport-road.html

Friday, 27 May 2016

A pub, a message of love and a club ........... on Cooper Street

Now this is Cooper Street and this impressive stone building has stood on this spot since 1863.

Waldorf House, 2015
Once a long time ago Cooper Street ran all the way from Booth Street across Princess Street down to Peter’s Street but that all changed with the construction of Central Ref which swept away a mix of interesting and not so impressive buildings.

And in the process cut short Cooper Street at its junction with Princess Street.

For me it has always been an alternative route across town which avoids the busier main thoroughfares and if the time is right allows you to turn off on to Kennedy Street to visit the Vine or the City Arms.

A century ago I could have just stayed on Cooper Street and slid in to the City Hotel at number 9.  It was offering up a selection of fine wines, beers and much else from 1879 and may have been there from the start when our building was opened.

The Waldorf, 1950
Back then the remainder of the building was home to the Free Masons and included a Hall and their club.

Look closely and above the main entrance is the symbol of the masons carved on the key stone.

And there generations of Masons did whatever Masons do from 1863 till they moved to that other present home on Bridge Street which is still where they are today.*

Now by one of the odd little twists of history my grandfather, great grandfather and at least some of my uncles were all Masons but dad would have nothing of them and so there the link finished.

All of which has taken me away from the City Hotel which I first came across on postcard sent from an army camp in 1911 to Miss Johnson at the City Hotel on Cooper Street.**

I will never know what she made of it, but the sender wrote, “You will be surprised to receive this.  Hearing you say your Yeomanry friend had disappointed you, I thought I would endeavour to rectify it.”

The Waldorf, 1973
The romantic in me wonders whether this was the start of a bid for Miss Johnston’s interest.

Sadly I couldn’t find her in the 1911 census and so far the landlord of the City Hotel who was a Bertie Holroyd and has also proved elusive.

In time I will find out something about both of them along with when the Hotel closed which is best done by a slow and patient trawl of the street directories which might also reveal exactly when the Waldorf Restaurant opened for business in the Mason’s old club.

It was there well into the 1970s and the name above the main door is a reminder of what is now Waldorf House was the Waldorf Restaurant which at one time was owned by the Wilsons brewery.

And this where the nerdy side kicks in because originally the Waldorf had occupied the plot where Cooper Street and Peter Street met.

The Waldorf, 1940
There is even a fine photograph of the building from the City Engineers Department dated 1940, showing not only the large sign in the window announcing that it offered a Dining and Tea room but shows the pub next door which offered Walker and Homfray’s Special Invalid Port at 4 shillings and 9d a bottle.

Which I am sure was a snip if you were an invalid or in need of a snip of port.  Walker and Homfray were “brewers & wine & spirit merchants” who were in 1911 based at the Woodside Brewery on Wilmslow Street, Eccles New Road.

All of which in time will offer up a whole set of new lines of research as well as some intriguing stories, not least of which may be why the City Engineers Department got the date of 1940 so wrong, because by then the Central Ref had been built and this little bit of our eating history had vanished.

That said I may have missed something and as ever the devil is always in the detail which is why I had at first some trouble locating the City Hotel in that building on Copper Street.

The Waldorf, 1970
What should be number 9 is a bay with a window, which mirrors perfectly another on the other side of themain entrance.

This bay was the way into number 9 but had ceased to be a doorway by 1950 which may mean that the City Hotel had gone by then.

By then the Waldorf may have extended in to our hotel.  In their time Walker and Homfray who may have owned the restaurant had been an enterprising and interesting company.

They had in 1905 bought out a smaller brewery which ran the Band on the Wall and supported Newton Heath FC which even I know became Man United.

They merged with Wilson’s Brewery in 1949 which explains the sign outside the Waldorf in the 1970s and nicely brings me back to Peter’s painting and one of those neat bits of continuity because occupying part of the building is the Tiger Lounge which advertises itself as “a basement venue with regular events including quiz nights, open mic/acoustic sessions and live gigs.”

I wonder what Miss Johnson would have made of that.

Location; Cooper Street, Manchester

Paintings; Waldorf House, Cooper Street, © 2015, Peter Topping,
Facebook; Paintings from Pictures, Web: www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk

Pictures; Copper Street, 1950, H Milligan, m68238, Cooper Street, 1973, D Wildgoose, m01061, Waldorf Restaurant, Peter Street Cooper Street, 1940, City Engineers Department, m38892, Cooper Street, 1970, A Dawson m50748, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

*KE7LODGE, https://www.ke7lodge.co.uk/freemasons-hall-manchester/

**"Dear Miss J".............. a message from the 8th Manchester’s at Garstang Camp to the City Hotel on Cooper Street ...... June 1911, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/dear-miss-j-message-from-8th.html

Thursday, 26 May 2016

Uncovering one of our local photographers, A H Clarke .............where local history met family history

Now I have been fascinated by Harold Clarke who was one of our local commercial photographers.*


Barlow Moor Road, circa 1926
During the 1920s and 30s he recorded many scenes of Chorlton and they are a priceless snap shot of the area.

This one was taken by Harold Clarke of 83 Clarence Road Chorlton, and may have been part of a series issued by Lilywhite Ltd, of Brighouse, in Yorkshire.

There are 21 of his photographs in the Greater Manchester County Records collection dating from 1926 through to 1934 and some from 1926 carry a serial number close to the one in the picture.

All of which is an introduction to a story written by Tony Goulding, who has contributed to the blog before.

“Your posts using postcards produced by A H Clarke re-kindled in me an interest in my family history. A  H Clarke was my maternal grandfather. 


Miss Clarke's ration book, 1939
I had previously searched in vain for 83, Clarence Road where my mother was raised, as her ration book shows. 

I had not noticed the name change to Claridge Roadd. 

On a recent walk past the house I realised how close it was to the old brickworks and remembered how my mother had told me how she used to get into trouble for playing around them and the clay pits.

My grandfather was born in Reddith, Worcestershire in 1889, the son of William who owned tobacconist/photographers on the High St. 

His mother Bessie was a member of the Woodfield family prominent in the town both as needle factory owners and in local politics. 

Arthur Harold became a professional photographer. 

In the 1911 census he is recorded as working as a photographer’s assistant in Hitchin, Herts. He later moved back to Redditch, then after the break-up of his first marriage in the early 1920's lived for a little while in Toxteth, Liverpool, where my mother was born in 1927 before settling in  Chorlton in about 1930.


Book marks Central Ref, 1934
He was obviously quite enterprising at this time as can be seen by these bookmarks he produced of the newly opened Central Library.

Sometime in the early 1940's he both re-located the family home and ceased making his living solely from photography as a 1944 wedding certificate shows him as an Inland Revenue clerk residing at 5, Keppel Rd. 

It must remain a matter of conjecture whether this change was for personal reasons or was due to economic pressure on the photographic trade by the advance in camera ownership and the decline in postcard usage as a result of the increased availability of telephones. 

Of course any such difficulties would be exacerbated by war time shortages, rationing, and restrictions.

Finally it is ironic that I haven't got any photos of my grandfather, who died  in 1952; two years before I was born ------a man who must have taken 10's of 1,000's of them in his lifetime.”

And so there you have it a little bit more of the history of those who recorded our history.

© Tony Goulding May 2015

Pictures; from the collection of Harold Clark, Barlow Moor Road, circa 1926, from the Lloyd Collection, and the ration book and book mark courtesy of Tony Clarke.

*Harold Clarke, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/travelling-around-chorlton-in-1930s-in.html

Out on Pomona land

Now strictly speaking there are no buildings to tell a story but I suppose that in a sense is the point.

There was once and there will be again.  Andy Robertson’s caption for his pictures reads, “two more views across Pomona land, this time from Ordsall Lane from near the hall.” 

The evidence for what had once been a little bit of Salford’s industrial history is there to see along with that creeping bit of nature which can never be eliminated.

And in time the developers and the Corporation will bring these spaces back into some sort of community use.

All of which makes Andy’s pictures a valuable record of a moment in time.

The digital archives of Manchester, Tameside and Trafford are full of images of our industrial past but the collections are in need of constantly being added to if only to make the transition from what was to what is now.

And pictures like these are an important contribution to our history.

Pictures; Salford 2014, from the collection of Andy Robertson

Wednesday, 25 May 2016

"Dear Miss J".............. a message from the 8th Manchester’s at Garstang Camp to the City Hotel on Cooper Street ...... June 1911

Now there is a lot going on in this picture.

Church parade with the 8th Manchester's circa 1911
We are at Garstang camp with the 8th Battalion of the Manchester’s which was a Territorial unit based at Ardwick and so I am guessing this must be their annual camp.

According to the notes that a collector has added on the back some of the cap badges belong to the 5th Ardwick Volunteer Battalion of the Manchester Regiment which became the 8th Manchester’s in 1908.

At Garstang
All of which may or may not help with dating the photograph, I know that it was sent as a picture postcard in June 1911 but the picture may have been taken much earlier.

So for now I am more intrigued by the message on the back which was sent to a Miss Johnson at the City Hotel on Cooper Street.

I will never know what she made of it, but the sender wrote, “You will be surprised to receive this.  Hearing you say your Yeomanry friend had disappointed you, I thought I would endeavour to rectify it.”

The romantic in me wonders whether this was the start of a bid for Miss Johnston’s interest.
Sadly I couldn’t find her in the 1911 census and so far the landlord of the City Hotel who was a Bertie Holroyd and has also proved elusive.

Not so the hotel which occupied a fine stone building almost on the corner of Cooper Street where it runs into Princess Street.

The City Hotel, Cooper Street, circa 1900
It is still there and the City Hotel was at number 9 sharing the block with the Free Masons Club and Hall.

Back in 1909 the landlord was a Mr Millard who was there six years earlier but beyond that date I have yet to go.

All of which just leaves me to reflect on the picture postcard and the fascination they offer up for visiting their lives of those from the past.

The messages and the choice of card were a very personal thing and were not meant for anyone other than the person who received it.

I doubt that the postman would have bothered lingering over each one.  On any one round he would have had plenty to deliver.

But of course a century or so later there is a privilege in sharing the sentiments offered up partly because they can reveal so much but also because so many have survived.

Cooper Street, 1911
In most cases we only have the one, but just occasionally there will be a full collection like that of the set of picture postcards sent by the young May Winifred Wareham to her family which include cards sent from across Britain and as far away as Monte Carlo and some which were originally taken as family snaps.

But that as they is for another time.

Picture; picture postcard of the 8th Manchester’s at Garstang camp, circa 1911, from the collection of David Harrop and detail of Cooper Street from Goad's Fire Insurance amps circa 1900, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/

*The Wareham Women, a church in Oldham and a unique set of picture postcards sent home to Heaton Mersey, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/the-wareham-women-church-in-oldham-and.html

Back at Pomona Docks, look carefully they may not be with us for much longer

Now I am back at Pomona Docks with more pictures by Andy Robertson.

I never knew the docks when they were busy workaday places but something of the size can still be got from these photographs.

I thought about researching their past and looking for more modern stories about them but in the end decided I would leave that to others and instead just post these.

Like so many of the pictures Andy takes of places around the city I doubt that this place will long still look like this.

After all here is a vast area that is empty, close to the city centre and beside a big stretch of water which in the summer is a pretty attractive spot.

So like so much of our industrial heritage, here you saw it first and maybe not for much longer.

Pictures; Pomona Docks, from the collection of Andy Robertson, August 2014



Tuesday, 24 May 2016

Uncovering the story of Joseph Thomas of Chorlton born 1894, died 1917 on the Western Front

It began with this postcard and as so often happens it set me off on a journey which led from a small house in Chorlton to the grand offices of an accountancy firm opposite the Town Hall and ended on the Western Front.

The postcard comes from the collection of David Harrop and was one of a number I have been looking at.*

What caught my attention was that it was sent to Henry Thomas who lived at number 6 Fairhaven Avenue and was sent in the March of 1916.

Cooper Street, circa 1900
Now Mr Thomas was a chimney sweep and had grown up around the corner in Brownhills Buildings on Sandy Lane.

These pre date 1832 and were once the property of Mr Brownhill who had been the wheelwright for the township.

That in itself was a fascinating link with our past but the postcard and its message drew me even deeper into the history of Chorlton.

It was from Joseph Thomas who was Henry's brother thanking him for the letter and Postal Order which “I was glad to receive [as] I was getting rather hard up” and announced that he was coming “home as usual on Saturday 2.15 at Victoria,” adding “send a pc if you are meeting me.”

17th Platoon, E Company 2nd City Battalion, 17th Manchester's 1914-16
Joseph had been born in 1894 and in 1914 was working for Richard Haworth & Co Ltd who had offices at 19 Cooper Street.

The building has long gone but it faced the Town Hall close to where the Cenotaph now stands.

Sadly his army records no longer exist but I know he enlisted in the 17th Manchester’s at the outbreak of the war and was stationed at Heaton Park before leaving for France in the November of 1915.

In time I will track his movements and the battles he fought in.

And we as these things go only hours after posting the story Stephen O'Neill replied identifying Joseph as the young man on "the top row far left" which is a powerful note to close on.

Sadly Joseph was killed on August 1 1917.






Picture, postcard dated, March 22 1916, and E Company 17th Service Battalion, the 2nd City Battalion, Manchester Regiment, from Manchester City Battalions Book of Honour,  from the collection of David Harrop, detail of 19 Cooper Street, 1900 from Goads Insurance Map, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://www.digitalarchives.co.uk/

*David Harrop, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/David%20Harrop

A day out with Mrs Fisher and friends

Now here is another of Ken Fisher’s pictures, from a collection featuring his grandmother.

I have no idea when or where the photograph was taken but it captures perfectly a day out sometime in the middle decades of the last century.

None of the people are known to me but some of them crop up in many of the images and so I am guessing they all lived close to each other if not in the same street.

Mrs Fisher lived in Moor Street in Fallowfield and I recognise some of the people on a picture which I think will be where she lived.

And so back to this one somewhere in the countryside or perhaps just a local park.

It captures perfectly a day away and that is all I want to say.

Location; unknown






Picture;  Mrs Fisher and friends, date unknown, courtesy of Ken Fisher

At Pomona Docks one wet August day

Nothing quite prepares you for the sheer size of Pomoma Docks.

It is a place I haven’t explored and so I am grateful that Andy Robertson went off with his camera and wandered across the derelict place a few days ago.

And so I think I shall post a number of his pictures over the next few weeks recording what is still there and a little that has already been lost.

As for the history of the area along with the docks I will leave that till later and include a map of the area in 1894 and one from 1845.

But all that in good time.

Pictures; Pomona Docks, August 2014, from the collection of Andy Robertson

Monday, 23 May 2016

Uncovering the story of Clarie

Now this is someone I will never  be able to put a name to.

Nor can I date the photograph or have any confidence in saying where it was taken.

But I think there may be a clue in the cap badge which while it isn’t very clear I think  belongs to the East Lancashire Regiment.

And I am a little more certain about that because this photograph comes with two others sent by Herbert to his wife.  Someone has added in a different hand “11th (S) BN. E. LANCS REGT”

Of course this maybe a mistake but there is one further connection because on both cards Herbert refers to a Clarie.

And this is the name writtten on the back of our card

Not much I know but interesting enough to want to know more especially as the 11th Service Battalion of  the East Lancashire Regiment was formed in Accrington on September 2 1914 and are more popularly  known as the Accrington serving first in Egypt and then in France.

They took heavy casualties during the Battle of the Somme but as for Herbert I have no idea.  There is no surname or address and so for now that pretty much is that.

It was uncommon for young women or wives to have their photograph taken wearing part of their sweet heart's or husband's uniform but the identity of this soldier is now lost.

And our young women may instead be Herbert's wife who was called Sophia.

I just don't know.

The handwriting identifying it as Clarie is in the same handwriting as that of the “11th (S) BN. E. LANCS REGT” which may mean I am on a loop to no where attempting to fit clues together which someone in the past got wrong.

But it is also possible that she was from Manchester who had a sweet heart in the East Lancs.

The photograph is part of a larger collection of picture postcards from Manchester in the possession of David Harrop.

David will be mounting an exhibition marking the centenary of the battle this July in the Remembrance Lodge at Southern Cemetery.

Picture; of an unknown young woman possibly called Clarie, date unknown from the collection of David Harrop

In the High Street with Ryan looking for Mr Fry

I always like it when I can revisit a bit of the High Street.

Now given that I live in the North that  is a tad more difficult than when I lived on Well Hall Road.

So here courtesy of Ryan is a building I discovered by chance long after I had taken the train to Manchester.

It sits behind a bank down a narrow pathway but has a rich and interesting history.

So for those who do not know its story or want to know exactly where it is I shall suggest  you read the stories about John Fry and his daughters which have appeared on the blog over the years.*

Armed with these you will be able to follow in the footsteps of Ryan and Mr Fry.

Now that is a challenge.

Location; Eltham High Street

Picture; Mr Fry’s fine house, 2016, from the collection of Ryan Ginn

*John Fry, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/John%20Fry

Another iconic building from my youth

Now yesterday I suggested some of the the all time iconic buildings of my bit of south east London.*

I started with the swimming baths at Laurie Grove, the telephone exchange and Health Centre on St Mary's Road and of course the Fire Station which is still there.

But reading back copies of the BBC news I see that even the fire station was nearly lost when it was one of those slated for closure in 2013.**

And that would have been a shame.  It was built between 1893-4 and is an impressive building reminding me of a grand French Chateau rather than a work a day fire station.

So much so that Peter decided to paint it just in case.

Painting; New Cross Fire Station, © 2015 Peter Topping from a photograph of New Cross Fire Station, January 17 2007, © Danny Robinson licensed for reuse under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 license

Web: www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk

Facebook: Paintings from Pictures https://www.facebook.com/paintingsfrom pictures

*Iconic Buildings from Peckham, New Cross, New Cross and Deptford, Peckham
https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/New%20Cross%20and%20Deptford


**Two London fire stations win reprieve from closure plan, July 10 2013, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23263766

The lost pub, the story of a family and lots of fine photographs ......... what’s social media got? ... its got the lot

Now there are those who still deride social media as a place to announce to the world the new handbag purchase, the failed bin collection or the next trend in breakfasts.

But that would be to overlook how in a few short years it has become a vehicle to share everything from fascinating sound historical research to collections of fine photographs which would otherwise rarely be seen.

It is open, free from some of the stuffy attitudes about what is history and makes no preconceptions about the right angle to shoot a picture of the Town Hall.

For many people it is the perfect place to showcase what they are doing without having to ask a gallery to exhibit their work or waiting on a publisher to decide if the piece is worthy of publication.

And for me it has not only been a place to park the blog but also a means of communicating with people from as faraway as Canada on our mutual connections with British Home Children, Australia and New Zealand on Great War veterans and of course South East London which I still think of as home.

So with that in mind here is another photograph of Eltham from Ryan along with a thank you to Chrissy and Jean who have also kindly offered up pictures and to Kath and Tricia who continue to come up with some amazing bits of local history.

And that is about all I am going to say.
Location; Eltham, London

Picture; Well Hall, 2016, from the collection of Ryan Ginn

Walking across the twin cities ............ part two

Earlier in the week I began reflecting on where I would take my friend Susan who will be visiting from Canada in June.

I also asked for alternatives and here are the first four from Marion, Bill, Val and Antony

The Hidden Gem

I'm planning almost the same route for some visitors from California, Andrew. 

A short visit to the Hidden Gem maybe? Centre of a parish not so long ago and a beautiful interior plus that intriguing little passageway beside it.”  

The Ship Canal

As you may be getting to the Lowry I presume you will be taking in our inland waterway the MSC as the other Ship Canal I know is the St Lawrence Seaway, Canada.”

The Cathedal, the Old Wellington and off up Chapel Street

"Andrew not much of the twin city there. I would suggest a look at the cathedral, with a glance at the Old Wellington and the recovered old wall in 

Cathedral cafe, then down across Blackfriars Bridge across the Irwell towards Trinity church and the site of the old flat iron market, just round the corner on John St was site of one of the first Ironworks where they nicked Boulton and Watts patent for the steam engine. 

Blackfriars Bridge was first erected as a wooden crossing so people could see a show. 

Greengate is the heart of old Salford. Trinity Church is one of the oldest in Salford. The very small houses were destroyed to make way for the railway. 

You could then walk up Chapel St and cross the footbridge at the Lowry back into Manchester. Chets might be open as well. The heart of both cities.”

How about Halle St Peter's in Ancoats? There's a former church opposite Ardwick Green with the graveyard still intact which you can't see from the road because all the graves are ledger stones. St John's Gardens off Deansgate. John Rylands Library.” 

And a heap of places

“Albert's Chop House and Sam's Chop House.  The Old Pint Pot. 

Have a walk down Bloom Street in Salford and see the old Gas Offices opposite The Kings. 

The Jewish graveyard in Brindle Heath. 

The Crescent in Salford. Weaste Cemetery is fabulous if you like old gravestones which have stories to tell.   

The Coach and Horses nearby has the smallest snug in the world. I could go on but there is so little time.”


Location; lots of places


Pictures; from the collection of Andrew Simpson, 200-2016





*The history of the twin cities in a day .......... less a competition more a collective showing off, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/the-history-of-twin-cities-in-day-less.html