Bandstands and wizards ........... and the headless one in Sale

I grew up during the decline of the bandstand.

Once they were the pride and joy of any respectable park, and a venue to listen to live music and meet your friends.

But in the years after the last world war, they became less popular, and this coincided with a lack of interest by cash strapped Councils in maintaining their parks.

Out went the carefully tended floral displays, and the stunning flower beds, along with  the resident park keepers who were part policemen, part friend, and who always kept an eye on the safety of unattended children.

And a creeping policy of low maintenance gardening and longer periods between cutting  grass, and following up on essential repairs, made some of our parks less than safe places.

All of which condemned the bandstand to a lingering death.

First, went the delicate and intricate iron work which not only supported the roof but gave a sense of Edwardian elegance to the structure. 

In the absence of regular painting, the iron rusted, looked unsightly and eventually became a safety hazard.

The logical next step, given that the bands no longer played, and the stand was just a brick plinth, which kids might fall off, was to demolish them.

I suppose they didn’t really fit that image of a new Britain where everyone sat on the grass listening to their transistor radios and chose to go off on Sunday’s for a drive into the countryside or even to the coast.

Some like the one in Fog Lane have vanished completely.  Some have been restored and others like the one that stood in Longford Park have been transported off to museums and cultural theme parks.

A few survived, minus their iron work and can still be seen which is where h Andy Robertson came across this one in Sale, yesterday.

But not content with just a bandstand he conjured up a  a wizard for good measure.

He christened it the “headless bandstand" but added “a wizard for good measure”.

And you can’t say fairer than that.

I shall add it to my growing collection of bandstands from around the world with a little bit of bandstand history.

Location; Worthington Park, Sale

Pictures; the bandstand and the wizard, 2020, from the collection of Andy Robertson

*Bandstands, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search?q=bandstands&max-results=20&by-date=true

The one which will stay a mystery …………..

 Sometimes you have to accept that a story has run its course with no resolution.

Not that I expected to find out the identity of a certain Hampson whose gravestone was deposited in Walkden Gardens a long time ago.

It was part of a pile of memorial inscriptions which were taken from the old Brooklands cemetery and dumped in the park, later to be recycled ad edging and kerb stones.

I doubt I would have ever come across them and certainly not set off on the search for the identity of Hampson if Andy Robertson had taken a walk through the park.

And having set off through Walkden Gardens he photographed some of the lost stone inscriptions.

Most of them record the names of stone masons, who left their names on the small edging stones which formed the border of the grave plots.

But one inscription was much larger, leaving Andy to speculate that this was actually part of a gravestone, belonging someone called Hampson, who was buried in the old Brooklands cemetery.

Of course a walk around the cemetery would not reveal anything given that the Hampson gravestone was no longer where it had been so reverently placed, which led me to seek the help of Trafford Local Studies Centre and in particular Sonia Llewellyn the Local Studies Advisor, 

Sonia replied to my request with “We do hold a CD ROM listing memorial inscriptions in the old part of the cemetery, which was compiled by the Ashton and Sale History Society. 

If there is anyone I can look up for you, just let me know”.

And I did ask, and kindly Sonia sent over the results which offered up twenty headstones, recording the deaths and internment of 61 people.  

Not all were Hampsons, but those that weren’t, rested with Hampson’s.

The burials span the period from 1872 through to 1978, with the youngest an infant and the oldest aged 84, and contain a mix of “memorial language” from the conventional “departed this life” to the touching  “who sweetly fell asleep in Jesus”, and the intriguing reference to a Edward Hampson of Manchester, "late of Moscow”.

But sadly, I am no nearer identifying the memorial stone found by Andy, other than that it appears to have no other names or details, which raises the possibility that it belongs to none of the above.

Leaving me just to thank Sonia, and Andy.

Location; Walkden Gardens

Pictures; Walkden Gardens, 2020 from the collection of Andy Robertson

*Trafford Local Studies Centre, https://www.trafford.gov.uk/residents/leisure-and-lifestyle/libraries/Local-Studies/Trafford-Local-Studies.aspx

Road signs with a story …………… just waiting to be found

I am intrigued by this stone road sign and its story.

Andy Robertson sent the pictures over, adding 

“I spotted this on the corner of Derbyshire Road and Northenden Road in Sale. 

I don't suppose it is in its exact original location but still interesting. 

Even when It was brand new and glistening I guess the passing motorists of today would have had trouble reading it?”

And I wondered if the local resident was happy to have such a sign above his stone wall.

It is one of those silly historical stories which might just lead somewhere.

After all there will be a few people with detailed local historical knowledge who can answer Andy’s question on the sign’s original location, as well as explaining how common these road inscriptions were and perhaps offering up some more.

And finally, it does allow me to use a delightful image from Trafford Lifetimes, dating from the 1880s.

Sadly my knowledge of Derbyshire Road is scant, so I can do no more than suggest this might be the other side of the road.

But someone will correct me, and that is both the fun and the joy of sharing pictures and stories on the blog.

Location, Sale

Pictures; Derbyshire Road and Northenden Road in Sale, 2020, from the collection of Andy Robertson, and Derbyshire Road, 1880, TL3126, courtesy of Trafford Lifetimes, https://apps.trafford.gov.uk/TraffordLifetimes/

*Derbyshire Road, Sale, view from Northenden Road, terrace beyond trees on the right 12-16 cottages. Beyond was the Smithy (see 1876 OS map) and Gough's field, now a pair of semis and town houses. 1880

The Board School .......... still going strong almost 140 years later

I remain a fan of those old Board Schools built in the late 19th and early 20 centuries.

They were, and still are solid beautiful buildings which are warm in winter and cool in summer.

By contrast the new wave of schools built in the 1950s onwards, were bold modern statements about what schools should be like, but  were all glass and metal with a fflat roof.

All of which meant that these new builds leaked heat in the winter, and were furnaces in the summer.

Added to which the metal frames were not always a good fit, and over the years began to rust and buckle allowing the wind to whip through.

And while all that glass looked good it proved an irresistible temptation to stare out at everything from the games lessons taking place or the traffic whizzing past.

Their Victorian and Edwardian predecessors had high windows which were good for letting in the light but were often just that bit too high to afford a distraction.

And of course these schools have lasted much better than those thrown up in the 1950s, which means many of us will have been to a Board School and seen our children go through similar ones and no doubt will see our grandchildren do the same.

Some are now too small and have had modern additions grafted on.

Andy Robertson was drawn to Springfield School on his travels through Sale and sent over a selection of pictures with the comment "this was on the way to Bulls Head, which was only a necessary watering stop you understand for an evening of culture with Cathy at the Waterside centre... John Bramwell of I am Kloot fame.

I was drawn in by the ‘Cookery Instruction’, sign and also by the way the 'Infant Boys' has been incorporated into the new build”.

Now I had to agree, but I wonder which of the two bits of building will still look good and be fit for purpose a century on.

Location; Sale

Pictures; Springfield School, Sale, 2018, from the collection of Andy Robertson

Always look up ..... On Cross Street, with ceiling window ..... Sale

Now Andy Robertson is a man of few words, but they cut to the point, so accompanying these two pictures he sent over was the simple comment, “On Cross Street, with ceiling window”.

And that is pretty much all that needs to be said.

The Bulls Head is not a pub I have been in, but I think I will take a visit, just to check out the ceiling.

The date says 1879 which means it will be pretty easy to trace.

Of course there will be someone who can reel off its whole history which would be interesting.

The Trevor Arms in Chorlton had a similar ceiling which was closed off in the 1960s, exposed again in the 1990s and after the last refurbishment has gone again under false panelling.

In the case of the Bull its attractive features are a little eclipsed by the big TV screen.

Still people will be drawn to the glass in a n idle moment when the football gets boring, which might start me off on a new series ....... Pub Windows.

And that is it.

Location; Sale

Pictures; the Bulls Head, Sale, 2018, from the collection of Andy Robertson 

The bit that Sale lost ......... remembered by Andy Robertson

Now you can be over precious about old buildings, but I am always guided by Andy Robertson who as we all know has been recording our changing landscape for the last four decades.

Yesterday he sent me four pictures of two buildings he photographed three years ago with the comment, “I took these pictures in March 2015 because I was there and they looked ‘nice’ and a bit old. 

Driving past the other week I noticed they were no more. 

I just thought the white building was just one building but having seen the 1908 map it is or was obviously three. 

The other building was to top right of the three. 

Bittersweet really, nice to have a picture of something gone but at the same time sad to see it gone!"

Location; Sale

Pictures; Bits that Sale has lost, 2005, from the collection of Andy Robertson

A day on Dane Road in Sale

Now I am fairly confident that as soon as Andy’s picture of the Bridge Inn goes live on the blog someone will offer up a detailed history of the pub and more than a few interesting stories.

And while I won’t put him on the spot I bet my friend Bill will be one of the contributors, which instead just leaves me to concentrate on the image.

Andy sent it over a few days ago with a New Year greeting and the comment that he took the picture on his way home from work.

I did go looking on the OS for 1870 which shows a collection of buildings on the site but alas I have no directories for the area and so will wait comments.

Location; Sale

Picture; the Bridge Inn, Dane Road, Sale, 2017 from the collection of Andy Robertson

A little bit of Egypt in Sale ..... along with a fitness machine and memories of Clark Gable

Now I don’t get out into Sale very often, which is why it was a long time before I discovered the Pyramid Cinema, and even longer before I stirred myself to find out anything about it.

I thought it looked vaguely Egyptian which must have given it a touch of class and enlivened a night out with Fred Astaire, Lauren Bacall and John Wayne.

And that vaguely historical theme was mirrored by the decor inside as it was by the design of the organ.

Not of course that I ever went in but I could have done for it only closed in 1984, having done just over a half century as a cinema and from 1981 a venue for live shows.*

Its subsequent years have been a tad odd.  It was bought by Trafford Council in 1987, became a night club for eleven years and is now a fitness centre.

But at least it is still there which is more than can be said for many of our period cinemas, some of which have fallen to the grand designs of developers or linger on as warehouses and supermarkets.

So next time you pass the place, give a thought to those first film goers who sat in one of its 1,900 seats in 1933 and were impressed with its Egyptian theme which even extended to the deign of the organ.

And if you want a more in depth and fascinating insight into the cinema and its connection with ancient Egypt I recommend Peter Robinson's paper which can be viewed by going to the comments at the bottom of the post and following the link.

Location, Sale, Greater Manchester

Pictures; the Pyramid, Sale 2015, from the collection of Andy Robertson

*Cinema Treasures, http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/2315

That house on Northenden Road ........... the end of the story

Nothing sums up the end of that house on Northenden Road than this pile of rubble, with its fallen decorated stone lintel and bits of broken brick arch.

Andy Robertson came across it just before Christmas as the demolition machines waited in readiness and went back a couple of times to record the end of this old building.

When the first stories appeared it led to a series of memories, sad comments about its demolition and the hint of more than a few stories about the place in happier times.

Well it’s gone, leaving just that pile of rubble, and a hole in the ground.

Now I will go looking for pictures of the house in its former glory but as I suspect these will all be on Trafford’s archive collection I doubt that they will appear on the blog.

Unlike Manchester and Tameside, Trafford still maintain that even for this non commercial blog I would have to by the image before it could be used.

So I shall content myself with one more from Andy on what is left of the place and the picture that kicked the series off.








Pictures; Northenden Road Sale, 2015-6, from the collection of Andy Robertson

*Sale in the 2000s, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sale%20in%20the%202000s

Looking for the history of that house on Northenden Road ............. as it goes

So the site of the immediate demise of this big house on Northenden Road created a lot of interest

Well that was Monday, and yesterday this was what was happening.

Picture; Northenden Road Sale, 2015, from the collection of Andy Robertson

Looking for the history of that house on Northenden Road before it goes

Now here is a house for which I no stories other than that it will soon according to Andy Robertson have gone the way of so many big old piles.

It is on Northenden Road in Sale and in the fullness of time I shall go looking for its past.

Of course there will be someone who can tell me so I shall just await developments.

Picture; Northenden Road Sale, 2015, from the collection of Andy Robertson

What once we had in Chorlton but now you have to go to Sale ....Eyebrow Cottage

Eyebrow Cottage, 2014

Now I rarely get down to Sale and so I have totally missed Eye Brow Cottage at 120 Cross Street.

It was built between 1660 and 1680.

The elaborate header bricks or "Eye Brows" over the window and door served the purpose of sheltering the windows from the rain water dripping off a flagged roof which originally had no gutters.

At the rear there was as you would expect an old water well and pump.

It is another in the collection of Andy Robertson who continues to record what we are losing.

Happy to say this one is staying although he told me it is up for sale.

I shall going looking for some stories from the place but in the meantime for those who want to look at the cottage over the last century and a bit there are 14 images at Trafford Life Times, http://legacy.trafford.gov.uk/content/tca/search_results.asp?fTown=2&fDecade=*&fKeyword=eyebrow+cottage

Picture; from the collection of Andy Robertson

So what's happened to the Wagon & Horses in Sale since we last looked?

Now for those who remembered the Wagon and Horses in Sale, and for a lot more who passed it on their way to work, this is just an update.

After centuries of serving up happy pints on sad Mondays, and sparkling G&Ts on hopeful Fridays it closed its doors and stood empty and neglected for years.

Andy Robertson began photographing the place long before it caught the attention of the developers and then in a series of pictures last year recorded its swift transformation from derelict building to a demolition site.
And because he does Andy was back last week hoping I expect to see the builders break ground and something new rise from the pile of rubble.

But not so yet, although this may only be a matter of time.

At present not a lot was happening last week when he passed.

Of course that could all change in a twinkling of a builder’s eye.

Picture, the Wagon and Horses site, June 2015, from the collection of Andy Robertson



*Sale in the 2000, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sale%20in%20the%202000s

The last ever pictures of the Wagon & Horses in Sale

Well there is pretty much a finality in Andy Robertson’s latest picture of the Wagon and Horses in Sale taken earlier today on a grey and cold afternoon.

After centuries of serving up happy pints on sad Mondays, and sparkling G&Ts on hopeful Fridays it is now just a pile of rubble.

And for any one of the nearly 3,000 people who have followed Andy’ pictures from April last year when he first recorded the place as an empty and forlorn looking ghost pub, to earlier in the week when the scaffolding went up and Barry the bulldozer arrived here is all that is left

But I am sure Andy will be back recording the breaking of the soil followed by all the stages which will lead to that mixed retail and residential development.

Pictures; the Wagon and Horses, 2014-2015, from the collection of Andy Robertson

Possibly the last time I visit the Wagon & Horses in Sale

This is not quite the end of the story of the Waggon & Horses in Sale but I rather think it must be close to the end.

The pub shut up shop over a decade ago and has been empty ever since.

Now the place clearly struck a chord with many people because the story posted a fortnight ago which reported on the appearance of scaffolding was read by 2,600 people in just a few days.*

Opinions were divided about the plans to demolish it which were approved last year as was the earlier application to build a mixed retail and residential development on the site.

There were those who lamented the loss of another pub from their past and those who while expressing sadness at its closure could see how the new development would be better than an empty building.

And now that debate all seems a tad academic.  Andy Robertson who took the earlier pictures of the pub with its scaffolding went back yesterday to discover work is well underway to reduce it to a pile of rubble.

And by now it may well have just become a hole in the ground, all of which just leaves that appeal for anyone with pictures, stories or memories of the pub to share them.

In the meantime there are a few other stories of the place which might spark some interest.**

Pictures; the Waggon & Horses, April 27 from the collection of Andy Robertson

*So it’s goodbye to the Waggon and Horses in Sale ..... closed for a decade and soon to be a hole in the ground, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/so-its-goodbye

**Sale, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Sale

So it’s goodbye to the Waggon and Horses in Sale ..... closed for a decade and soon to be a hole in the ground

The Waggon & Horses 2014

It was just under a year ago that Andy Robertson wandered in to Sale and snapped the Waggon and Horse.*

It had closed sometime around 2003 and has stood empty ever since.

Now I have yet to track the pub back to its beginning, but it was there in 1875 and just over a hundred years later made a stir by replacing the electric pumps with the traditional hand pumps and barrel and sold real ale.

Both Andy and I pondered on its future.  Its last landlord had confirmed it had been sold to a developer but that was it.

The Waggon & Horses, 2015

Andy passed it yesterday and it was clear something was happening, and not just to the old pub for along the road the same tell tale scaffolding and netting obscured the neighbouring building.

And a search of the Trafford Planning applications revealed that in February of this year there had been an application for the “Demolition of the Waggon and Horses Public House together with Nos. 137-145 Cross Street and all light industrial buildings to the rear.”*

And next door today

Now as yet there is no indication of what will replace the buildings but I guess when Andy next passes there will just be a hole in the ground.

That said not long after I posted the story, someone dug out a planning application from five years ago which applied for the demolition of the existing buildings to replaced by a mix of retail, commercial and residential properties.***

The application was approved in November 2010.

And next door a year ago

So I guess Andy will not have to look at a hole in the ground for long.  On the other hand given that he passes the spot regularly I rather think we may have a new photographic project about to begin as Andy chronicles the development of the site.




Pictures; The Waggon and Horses and neighbouring buildings in 2014 and 2015 from the collection of Andy Robertson



* Thinking about the fate of the Waggon and Horses in Sale a decade and a bit since it stopped serving, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/thinking-about-fate-of-waggon-and.html

**84951/DEM/15, http://publicaccess.trafford.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

**6054/O/2010, http://publicaccess.trafford.gov.uk/online-applications/caseDetails.do?caseType=Application&keyVal=ZZZW38QLTA628

Thinking about the fate of the Waggon and Horses in Sale a decade and a bit since it stopped serving

Now as ever there is always a story it just does not always turn out the way you think.

So here I am with a derelict pub on Cross Street between Mersey Road and Glebelands Road in Sale.

It is another of those pictures by Andy Robertson who is collecting an important collection of photographs which record how quickly our past is vanishing.

This was the Waggon & Horses

Now I have yet to track the pub back to its beginning, but it was there in 1875 and just over a hundred years later made a stir by replacing the electric pumps with the traditional hand pumps and barrel and sold real ale.

It was still serving the stuff in 2003 when according to the last landlord the place was sold to a developer and in the way of these things over a decade later it has yet to be developed.

And at this point I shall pause and direct you to the excellent Manchester Pub site which has a wonderful collection of pictures of the Waggon & Horses dating back to 1900 and equally fascinating a series of pictures from the inside long after last orders were called.

Now given the appearance of the place I suggest that anyone who wants to see it should do so  soon.

Once that is done there is that impressive pub the Volunteer a little further along Cross Street which I rather guess takes its name from the Volunteer Drill Hall that was close by.

That said someone will correct me and perhaps offer some interesting stories of both the Volunteer and the Waggon & Horse.

Pictures; from the collection of Andy Robertson, 2014

*Guest Pub - Waggon & Horses, Sale, http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/guest-pub-waggon-horses-sale.html  from PUBS OF MANCHESTER PAST & PRESENT,  http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.co.uk/