A little bit of the Woolwich I remember

Now I am back with another of those excellent photographs of Woolwich from the collection of Stephen Bardrick.

I don’t have a date but it can be no earlier than 1935 when the Woolwich opened its grand new headquarters just here.

The cars will be the clue to fixing the time the picture was taken and for me it is far more familiar a scene than the present one.

But that I suppose is the fate of the ex pat.  You leave somewhere you grew up thinking that the buildings and even the street patterns are parked and will just be where you left them and then you come back and it is all different.

For me it started with the entrance old railway station which looks nothing like the wooden building I remember moves on to the row of shops on either side and ends opposite with that open space in front of the 1935 building.

At which point I am in danger of sounding like one of those grumpy old uncles who comes for Sunday tea and can’t quite come to terms with seeded granary sandwiches, the absence of carnation milk to pour on the equally absent bowl of tinned fruit and yearns for fish paste  and sliced ham.

Still I bet he would have been able to date the picture and may just have been old enough to remember when the Woolwich had its headquarters at 113 Powis Street and may like many of us disapproved when it ceased being an organization owned by its members and became a bank in 1997.

I can’t remember what I did with my account but liked the old TV ad “I’m with the Woolwich” and was pleased that for almost a decade they sponsored Charlton but less pleased that they were bought up Barclay’s ending what had been a proud independent history which stretched back to 1847.

Picture; Woolwich Equitable Building Society Offices, date unknown, courtesy of Steve Bardrick

The Woolwich I remember

I like this picture of Woolwich for lots or reasons, but not least because it is how I remember it with the buses negotiating their way past the market stalls and the crowds out looking for a bargain or just enjoying an afternoon in the square.

I have tried dating it but so far it is a pretty wide slot which starts at 1939 and runs through into the 1950s.

That said I don't think it will be later than 1960.

The key will be the bus which someone far more an expert than me will be able to identify.

I know it is an RT which were built for London Transport from 1939 onwards but they remained in service for decades.

Likewise it might be possible to date the make of the car and work out when it was registered but cars like buses have a habit of staying on the road for years which just leaves the building to our left in the main picture and the style of the clothes.

The directories will pinpoint the shop but men’s clothes remained fairly uniform from the 1930s well into the early 60s which just leaves the woman and her hat in the corner.

There is no evidence of blackout or other signs to link it to the war.
and the tram lines are missing so that I think will narrow it to the 1950s, which is just that bit more exciting given that this was the period I could have been there.*

All of that said it is quite clearly from a time well before now and what draws me to the photograph is the sheer bustle and the way the photographer  caught a moment

Pictures; Woolwich circa 1930s-50s, courtesy of Steve Bardrick.

* I just now await someone to put me right on tram routes through Woolwich.

Home thoughts from abroad nu 2 ................. walking home from Woolwich on a summer’s night in 1966

Woolwich Common, 1970

Some memories stay with you and are as vivid now as they were then.

I was sixteen, it was the summer of 1966 and I was walking home from Woolwich to Well Hall.
It was a journey I must have made countless times and it was one I always enjoyed, especially once you had cleared the town and made it up to the common.

It was that mix of peace, the lingering heat of a hot summer’s day and the smells from the grass, the bushes and the trees.

The bonus was always those nights that brought on a thunderstorm.

And almost the same spot in 1906

If I was lucky I got home before the rain but either way there were those magic moments when the woods above our house were lit up by the jagged streaks of lightening followed by the roll of thunder.

The best place to see it was just past the police station as the road fell down towards the roundabout.

And usually I was alone which made the event all that more awesome.

After all back in 1966 few people were daft enough to walk out of Woolwich at nearly midnight and so the only company were the occasional passing car or the odd 161 with all its lights off heading I knew not where.

And now a full half century later I still think of those nights.

Location; Eltham, London

Picture; Woolwich Common, 1970, from the collection of Jean Gammons and the Royal Military Academy, from the series Woolwich, 1906 and the Royal Military Academy from the series Woolwich Town and City 1905 issued by Tuck & Sons, courtesy of TuckDB http://tuckdb.org/history

In a very different Berseford Square

I have to thank Steve Bardrick for the collection of pictures of Woolwich he kindly agreed to share with me.

Part of the pleasure of looking at them is that they remind me of the Woolwich I remember which has now pretty much vanished but also because each of them has set me off on a detective trail.

So here I am in Beresford Square flanked by the Ordinance Arms on one side with Draper’s the butchers directly ahead.

I can’t be sure of the date but I am guessing we must be in the late 1940s into 1950s judging by the clothes, and the presence of the tram lines.

Now the last tram clanked into the history books in 1952 and while the tram lines took a bit of time to vanish they will not have lasted the decade.

So the key will be that butcher’s shop and a trawl of the directories will give us a beginning and end date for the business which might not offer up an exact moment but will be close enough.

That said I don’t have access to the directories for that period but they are located in the Greenwich Heritage Centre and my olf friend Tricia might come up with something when she next visits.

The Draper Brothers have long gone, the Ordinace Arms trades under a new name and the square has lost much of the hurly burly activity all of which Brings me back to Steve's picture.

Like some of his other images it captures a busy day.

And just perhaps there will be people who remember Draper's or sat in the Ordinance Arms watching the trams rattle past.

We shall see.

Picture; Beresford Square, date unknown courtesy of Steve Bardrick

Memories of the Co-op, a tram journey and a live eel

I am always on the lookout for memories of Eltham and Woolwich before today, and so I was pleased when Jean shared some of her childhood ones.

Now if you are of a certain age you will more than likely remember your Co-op Divi number, this you offered up every time you purchased something from the local store.  There were also those light weight brass and tin tokens.

It always seemed to fall to me to slip down Well Hall Road to the RACS for the odd thing which of course meant remembering the number.  But then they went over to those blue stamps which long ago had their day and now I have a card which I hand over at the till.

But enough of me.  Jean also had those Co-op chores.

"I remember the tin tokens my granny used to get from the Co-op in Welling- she always let my cousin and I sort them all out around Christmas time and then she took us both to the Co-op in Woolwich to exchange them for real money. 

I used to love seeing the little brass things whizzing around that Co-op taking cash from one place to another, I suppose. 

We used to get to Woolwich by Trolley Bus - once and only once she took us on to a Tram, I loved every minute of this but Bryan was sick as a dog so the experience was never repeated.  

She always used to tell us as we got on the Trolley Bus that we would have to leave Woolwich by four o'clock as that was when the knives came out. Amusing this, years ago, but not so funny now in the light of that dreadful killing in Woolwich of that poor soldier recently.  

Thinking of Trams reminds me of a story she told me about my Grandfather (one of Granny Morris's sons and the baby on her lap in the old photo I think I sent you). 

He worked in the Woolwich Arsenal and came home to Welling by Tram. 

He loved eels and often bought some live ones in Beresford Market. One day they fell out of the container straight into a lady's lap!!  

Hysterics all round (I would have died)."

Pictures; number 46 tram, courtesy of the Eltham Society on its way to Woolwich circa 1940s and Beresford Square, in the middle decades of the last century, courtesy of Mark Flynn, http://www.markfynn.com/london-postcards.htm

Eltham and Woolwich ………… 75 years ago

Eltham High Street

The quality of the images is a bit iffy, but that has more to do with me than the originals.  

As our scanner has taken a holiday, I was forced back on taking a picture from a picture, using a camera.

Still they capture scenes which have almost passed out of living memory, because while neither Woolwich or Eltham changed that much during the 1950 and 60s, these three images date from the very early 1950s if not back into the decade before.

And that makes them quite special, but for me there is another reason and that is they come from a book I thought lost.

Hare Street

It is the Official Guide to the Metropolitan Borough of Woolwich, and while there is no date, judging from the images I guess it was produced soon after the last world war.

It is a fascinating book which is now a piece of history.  Along with detailed descriptions of Woolwich, Eltham and Plumstead, there is a wealth of information on the services the borough operated, and a shedload of adverts for firms many of which will have ceased trading ages ago.

These include the Pioneer Bookshop at 3 Woolwich New Road, Court Studio in the Arcade in Eltham, and J.A. Proctor Ltd Builders and Contractors of Plumstead.

Thomas Street

So over the next few weeks I shall be returning to the Official Guide.

Leaving me just to observe that the presence of tram tracks and overhead cables might fix the time to some time before that last tram ran.

Although both rails and cables didn't vanish straight away.

Location; the Borough of Woolwich

Pictures, Eltham High Street, Hare Street and Thomas Street, circa 1950, from the Official Guide to the Metropolitan Borough of Woolwich, Wells of Woolwich

Trolleybus 698 Woolwich-Bexleyheath ….. now that’s a zippy title

Now I have my old friend Richard Woods to thank for igniting memories of trolley buses.

 Tolleybus no. 1768, 2014

He sent over a link to a trip from Woolwich to Bexleyheath in 1959 on Trolleybus 698, which followed on from an equally fascinating home movie about the old, old Woolwich ferry as it crossed the River in 1961.*

Of the two the Ferry will always be more special to me.

Not so the trolley bus which seemed calculated to make me feel very wretched.  

I think it was the mix of heat, that faint smell of disinfectant and the slight whirring noise, which guaranteed to make me feel sick before the end of any journey.

So, I approached TROLLEYBUS 698 Woolwich-Bexleyheath with a bit of trepidation, but was won over by the scenes as it made its almost silent smooth way from the cinema facing the River.

A Manchester rival, 1955

It is a spot I remember well, because a decade later I stood at the same place waiting for a bus to work, and remember that even on summer’s day it could be a miserable place at 6 in the morning, made worse in winter when the rain came off the water and penetrated each layer of clothing.

My Wikipedia tells me that “Trolleybuses served the London Passenger Transport Area from 1931 until 1962. For much of its existence, the London system was the largest in the world. It peaked at 68 routes, with a maximum fleet of 1,811 trolleybuses”.** 

So that is it.  

For some the attraction of the home movie will be the trolley bus, for others the scenery and for anyone born after 1962 perhaps it will the novelty of seeing this thing that looked like a bus with echoes of the tram.

One of my nieces did recently ask me what was a trolley bus?  To which this film does the bit. 

Location; on the trolley bus from Woolwich

Picture; Preserved London Transport Q1 class trolleybus no. 1768, on display at the Regent Street Bus Cavalcade held as part of the Year of the Bus. No. 1768 ran on services in West London between 1948 and 1961. Following its withdrawal, it was retained for preservation. As of 2014, it was owned by the London Transport Museum. June 2014. Author; Bahnfrend. This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license. Manchester Corporation Trolley Bus, 1955, m48371, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass  

*TROLLEYBUS 698 Woolwich-Bexleyheath London 1959, YouTube, by Alan Snowdon Archive, https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=old+woolwich+ferry+engine+videos&&view=detail&mid=3DACF91326BDA4A52B813DACF91326BDA4A52B81&rvsmid=37FDE2E288F635F8664937FDE2E288F635F86649&FORM=VDQVAP

**Trolleybuses in London, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_London