Withy Grove Records ….. one building on Thomas Street … and John and Betsy Greenwood

 I am standing outside number 5 Thomas Street thinking of going into Withy Grove Records which will be a treat.

Withy Grove Records, 2026

I belong to that generation that bought vinyl.  Of course, back then I doubt I ever used the word vinyl. They were just records, coming as singles, E.P.s or L.P.s, and they are still my chosen way of listening to my music.

Selling the vinyl, 2026

True I have an equally large collection of CD’s but there is something different in putting the L.P. on the deck and listening to the sound which comes with all those scratches, which I can still place alongside the girlfriend I was with at the time.

Despite the temptation I didn’t go in and instead turned my attention to the building which I reckoned has some history.

Throughout the late 19th century into the 20th shop appears to have been part of one premises which included 42 Shudehill and round into Thomas Street as far as Salmon Street.

It was occupied by the firm of Joseph Brook wholesale druggist and drysalter and for those unfamiliar with the word drysalter my Wikipedia tells me that they “were dealers in a range of chemical products, including glue, varnish, dye and colourings. 

They might supply salt or chemicals for preserving food and sometimes also sold pickles, dried meat or related items. The name drysalter or dry-salter was in use in the United Kingdom by the early 18th century when some drysalters concentrated on ingredients for producing dyes, and it was still current in the first part of the 20th century”.*

So far, I can track them in this building from 1851 to 1929 and with more research it should be possible to pinpoint when the firm vacated the site.

The Drysalters on Thomas Street, 1888

I rather think that this makes it over 170 years old and begs the question of when it was built.  And that I think might be around 1850.  Adshead’s map of 1851 and Goad’s Fire Insurance map from 1888 show it as one building and despite what appears to have been serious rebuilding at the Salmon Street side, it does still look like one original construction.

The 1850 street directory lists four distinct buildings facing onto Thomas Street, each with a different occupant, ranging from a surgeon, hairdresser, leather cutter and last maker, and this is confirmed by the OS map of 1849.

And it is the surgeon that offers up a bit of a mystery.  He was John Greenwood who in 1851 lived in the largest of the four.  He describes himself as “a surgeon, chemist and druggist”, and his actual address is listed around the corner in the same building which looked out on Shudehill at number 42.

Those four separate buildings, 1849

The rate books show that this property commanded a rateable value of £10 and a yearly rent of £12 compared to the other three in Thomas Street which were much lower.

Mr. Greenwood lived here with his wife two children, a house servant and a “shop boy for the chemist shop”.

But a decade later he has moved on which would fit with the theory of new build.

And here is the possible mystery, because according to the 1861 census he is alone and living as a lodger with six others at the Temperance Coffee House on Deansgate which was just down from Blackfriars Bridge.

As yet I can find no reference to his three children who would have been fifteen, thirteen and 12, while there is a suggestion that his wife had remarried, moved back to Yorkshire and had a new family.

All of which will demand more research and takes me away from Thomas Street, and Withy Vinyl, but then that’s how stories go.

Where we began, 2026

Location; Thomas Street

Pictures; Withy Grove Records, 2026 from the collection of Andrew Simpson, and Thomas Street in 1888 from Goad’s Fire Insurance maps and in 1849, from the OS map of Manchester and Salford 1849, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/ 

*Drysalter, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drysalter

Clinging on ………. walking the Northern Quarter

Despite the ever-vigilant eyes of developers and investors, bits of that older edgy and interesting Manchester survive amongst the high-rise blocks of apartments, swish hotels and cosmopolitan restaurants.

Exotic Mr. Banksy, 2023

And no where more so than the Northern Quarter.

Like me there are many who have fond memories of the area when it was still a place of bustling wholesale markets, small warehouses and shops selling “odd things and services" which were hard to find elsewhere.

Thomas Street, 1850

Not that this is a swipe at the new businesses, and flats which have reinvigorated a part of the city which had lost much of its population and trade and was really a place waiting for something to happen.

Queue for that pedant to point out that this wasn’t always called the Northern Quarter and for another to demand to see a map with the new name recorded for all to see.

And yes, they have ventured to express themselves before on the blog and have been roundly answered.

But I suppose similar comments were expressed when the area was being developed in the late 18th century, as speculative builders saw an opportunity to “knock up” rows of terraced houses and closed courts to meet the demand for homes for the countless thousands of people seeking work in the new factories.

All of which brings me back to the corner of Thomas Street and Shudehill where, amongst the new can still be found those fascinating businesses which vie with The Lower Turks Head and the Hare and Hounds.  They include the trophy shop and w the CD and Vinyl shop at 13 Shudehill.

And what a perfect platform for Mr. Banksy and his friend the happy Tiger.

Instead, I shall reflect on how Thomas Street had changed by 1851 when it was a mix of traders and small manufacturers with a few shops, and pubs suppling the inhabitants of the nearby streets.

In time some of their homes and workshops were replaced by the grander offices and warehouses of Imperial Buildings and Market Buildings which are still there today. 

Salmon Street, once known as Little Stable Street, 2023

I will go looking for the stories behind the door of number 1 Thomas Street where the surgeon John Greenwood lived, long with Edward Hardman, hairdresser, George Blackwall, leather cutter and James Humphrey, last maker.

And I may try to explore the history of William Taskers’ eating house at number 11 and a bit about the White Lion, two doors down at number 15 Thomas Street.

But for now, I am intrigued by the name Brooks on the doorstep of that vinyl shop and the change of name for what was once Little Stable Street but became Salmon Street.  

It is the first little street off Thomas Street on the northern side and had been renamed by 1894 and I guess may actually have become Salmon Street sometime on or after the Wholesale Fish Market was opened in 1873.

Banksy, the Tiger and a magazine, 2023

A little mystery someone will have the answer for.

Well we shall see.

Location; Shudehill, Thomas Street

Pictures; Banksy, the Tiger and a magazine, changing Salmon Street, 2023, from the collection of Andrew Simpson, and Thomas Street, 1850, from Adshead’s map of Manchester, 1850, courtesy of Digital Archives, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/

Keep taking the pictures ….. even in lockdown ….. a deserted Thomas Street

The task is that simple one ………. keep taking the pictures even in the lockdown, because pretty soon people will forget how empty our city streets became at the height of the pandemic.

And in the same way I wonder how long it will be before Andy’s pictures of Thomas Street featuring “Eton Mess” and “Marcus Rashford for PM”, will need to be accompanied with detailed notes, and supported by scholarly footnotes.

And that is really all I have to say.

History never stops and while the professional historian makes judgements on what constitutes history, the reality is that we can never be quite sure what at the time will be judged significant and therefore worthy of being recorded.

So, as I always say “hoover it all up” and “wait for posterity to choose".  

And if Ms. Posterity gets it wrong ………..just put it out there for everyone to see and decide.

Which just leaves me to add that I fully accept not everyone will see the historical relevance of the pictures, but I would suggest that they may not last more than a few years, vanishing like melting snow in the winter sunshine, so grab them while you can.

Location; Thomas Street, Northern Quarter

Picture; Thomas Street, 2021, from the collection of Andy Robertson

More surprises in the Northern Quarter .......

If you go down to the Northern Quarter be ready for a few surprises.

Of all the places in the city it is one of those which seem to change with the weather.

Now that is not surprising when you think of the large number of very old buildings, more than a few of which are tired and some that are “past their sell by date”.

Add to this the large number of small businesses which open, serve a need and close as fashion and the rents change.

Many of us will remember when this area was not the Northern Quarter and was the hub of the wholesale food trade and later still when it fell on hard times with the closure of the markets and a period when it was waiting for something to happen.

All of which is now in the past and as Andy discovered last week bits of Thomas Street are being “done to”, just what that means is unclear but it looks like it is going to happen to what was , 46 and 48 Thomas Street.

There was also a rumour on social media that someone had plans for Al-Faisal at number 58, which has been serving up wonderful food since 1992.

I went on to the planning portal to check but was relieved to find no application for alternative use, which means I think it is time to celebrate the restaurant with reminder of Peter Topping’s painting he did in 2014.*

Location; Thomas Street

Pictures; The Northern Quarter, 2018 from the collection of Andy Robertson

* Eating out in the Northern Quarter, now and 100 years ago, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=Al+Faisal

Down on Thomas Street in the Northern Quarter

Thomas Street, still waiting to happen

Now Thomas Street in the Northern Quarter is changing.

In the space of thirty minutes or so I saw a number of smart suited men with earnest faces and various degrees of interest looking at these buildings.

And you can see why, over the last decade and a bit the area has become an interesting and exciting place to visit.

I remember it as run down, and drab with a faint air of decay.  It was a place waiting to happen and now of course it’s time has come.

Thomas Street pretty much reflects what is happening to the area.

On the corner of Thomas Street and Kelvin Street

New quirky shops offering clothes which you don’t see in the main stores nestle beside a range of bars and eating establishments like the Teacup Kitchen to Al Faisal Tandoori.

But there is still plenty of that old Manchester here, with buildings which have done their time as a variety of retail outlets and been home to generations of families stretching back to the early 19th century.

Step off down Kelvin Street and follow it as it twists and turns crossing other small and narrow streets you can get a sense of how busy, cluttered and purposeful it all was

And there are still some fascinating bits of the past including this sign which is difficult to make out and I guess will be even more difficult to date.

It may have announced the name and business which operated from this corner building but the shop window has long ago been bricked up and the wall now bulges ominously.

A photo shoot on Thomas Street

So I guess the place is ripe for development from some of our people in smart suits.

All of which is a sort of appeal to get down there soon before this little bit of the city goes for ever and take a camera.

The digital archive has fewer pictures of Thomas Street than I expected and if we are not careful the place will have changed before someone has documented it.

That said I just bet now that there are a shed load of images all tastefully done in black and white just waiting to catch my attention.

Well I hope so and perhaps the two engaged on a photo shoot while I was there will have used more of the street as a backdrop.

Pictures; Thomas Street, June 2014

Eating out in the Northern Quarter, now and 100 years ago

Al-Faisal Tandoori, Thomas Street, 2014

It’s is nice to know that I am not the only one who finds the Northern Quarter a fascinating place.

I was talking to Peter recently about the area and sure enough he had a series of stories from when he worked there and quite a few revolved around the Al-Faisal Tandoori which is on the corner of Thomas Street and John Street.

Those I shall save for later, but he had just finished a painting of the restaurant and this I couldn’t miss out on.

Now when I was there a few weeks back the place was doing a respectable trade which is always a good sign and all the more so given the number of other eating places and bars that have sprung up along Thomas Street.

All of which got me thinking about that stretch of properties running east back from John Street to Kelvin Street.  All of them are now closed and waiting for something to happen and that I expect will happen soon judging by the number of smart suited people with earnest faces who were inspecting them when I was down there.

And given their interest I decided to look back into the history of this bit of Thomas Street and came up with the names and trades which were there just over a century ago.

So at number 58 now the Al-Faisal Tandoori was George R Clegg, stationers, and next door at 56 was E. Tapp and Co, ticket writers.

56 & 58 Thomas Street, 2014

Taking up the rest of the row was Lord’s Restaurant run by Mr Elliot L Lord who had been born in 1854 in Rochdale and was living just a tad distance away at 297 Cheetham Hill Road at the turn of the last century.

Now the Lord’s must have been doing well because a decade earlier in 1891 they were living above the shop and shared number 54 Thomas Street with their daughter and six other people including Elizabeth White, the cook, Mary Roberts the chambermaid, two lodgers and Patti Read and Edith Wiseman who also worked in the restaurant.

A decade before that they were in more humble surroundings on Oldham Road and Mr Lord gave his occupation as “Dining Room Keeper.”

But after 1911 I lose them I think Elliot Lord died in 1938 but that is it.

All of which begs the question what will be next for numbers 56 and58 Thomas Street and whether Peter will be back to paint the development?

We shall see.

Painting;  Al-Faisel ©2014 Peter Topping Paintings from Pictures
Web: www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk
facebook: www.facebook.com/paintingsfrompictures

Picture; 56 7 58 Thomas Street, 2014 from the collection of Andrew Simpson