On Shooters Hill remembering the Great War at Christ Church

I am back on Shooters Hill in the company of Darrel Spurgeon's guide book.*

It is a book I keep returning to because it contains some fascinating history of Eltham and the surrounding areas and a set of first class walks.

So today I have lifted a little bit more of his walk along Shooters Hill and in particular Christ Church which is number two on the map and can be found by walking east up past the old police station as far as Red Lion Lane.

The church is opposte.

“Christ Church. A small Victorian Gothic church of 1856, the east end added in 1869.  

The exterior in unexceptional, but the interior is interesting with the atmosphere of a village church.  Note the fine east end and stained glass window of 1869 and a series of unusual roofshields.  

In 1900 Temple Moore added a coloured chancel screen, two large figures of winged angels in the chancel and decorated cornices.

In the churchyard is a graceful Great War Memorial cross of granite and in front of this the Ypres milestone, an 18th century milestone converted to a First World War memorial.  It reads: ‘130 miles to Ypres, in defending the salient our casualties were 90,000 killed, 70,500 missing, and 410,000 wounded.’ 

Note the modern milestone on the opposite side of the road, with replicas of 19th century iron plates reading ‘8 miles to London Bridge and 7 miles to Dartford’, which used to be on the Ypres milestone.

To the east is Christ Church School.  The small central building is the old village school of 1857; the extension on either side is post war.”

*Discover Eltham, Darrell Spurgeon, 2000

Pictures; map and photograph courtesy of Darrell Spurgeon

On Shooters Hill with Mrs Craven and George Field in the June of 1841

I have decided to head north of Well Hall to Shooters Hill in search of a story. 

Back in the 1830s and 40s, it was a mixed bunch of those deriving an income from the land and the well off.

So of our forty two people in gainful employment in the June of 1841 the largest group were those who described themselves as agricultural labourers, farm servants or gardeners.

These were followed by those of “Independent means” along with one solicitor, a governess, a tea broker and a publican.

They lived fairly close together on the southern side of Shooters Hill on a stretch facing the Bull Inn.

And I guess quite a few of our band of workers would have spent time in the company of George Field who along with his wife Mary ran the Bull Inn.

Not that I would expect the Bull was ever frequented by Louisa Crewe who rented 21 acres  from the Crown and lived in Hazelwood House which was a big enough pile for it to be marked and named on the tithe map of 1844.

She had not long become a widow.

But of her, her employees and the others in Shooters Hill more next time.
Location, Shooters Hill , London

Picture; detail from the tithe map of Eltham, courtesy of Kent History and Library Centre, Maidstone, http://www.kent.gov.uk/leisure_and_culture/kent_history/kent_history__library_centre.aspx

Home thoughts from abroad nu 3 ................. lost in the woods in the summer of 1964

An occasional series on what I miss about the place where I grew up.*

Now I say lost but that would not be strictly true but thinking back to that summer of 1964 I might as well have been.

This was the first summer after we had moved to Well Hall from Peckham and it was magic.

After all how could it be other wise?

True there were parks in Peckham and neighbouring New Cross but the woods above Well Hall were something different.

For a start they were big, stretching all the way to that unknown place called Welling, offered great views down across Eltham and Woolwich but above all were just somewhere to wander.

And as the next few years rolled by and I was faced with yet another broken romance, walking alone in the woods got me out and pushed away that feeling of teenage melancholy.  
.
I was too old to see the woods as an adventure playground but they were still a place of fascination.

We went back recently took the old familiar routes up to the Castle looked down towards Eltham Park and then headed across to Shooters Hill Road and the Red Lion.

Of course back in 1964 the pub would not have featured over much on my journeys, but a little over three years later the Welcome Inn would be a fine finishing point to a long wander through the woods.

None of us were 18 but we looked it and that was enough.

And it was here sometime around then that I got to watch one of those first colour transmissions of a tennis game on TV.

It’s hard now to think all we watched was in black and white and I have to say that afternoon in the Welcome was a revelation.

Today of course we take it for granted, the welcome has gone and I seldom walk the woods.

Location; Oxleas Woods, Eltham

Pictures; the Woods, 1976 courtesy of Jean Gammons, and looking down, 2015 from the collection of Ryan Ginn

*Home thoughts from abroad, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Home%20thoughts%20from%20abroad

Stories of the Great War from Eltham and Woolwich ............. nu 1 the milestone on Shooters Hill

An occasional series reflecting on the impact of the Great War.

Now I have to say I never really knew the story of the war memorial outside Christ Church on Shooters Hill.

I will have passed it countless times, but when you are young war memorials scarcely register especially when there is the promise of an unknown adventure in the woods behind.

But reading it now is to be reminded of the terrible loss of life during the Great War.

The inscription is simple and to the point.

What gives the memorial its added significance is that it is part of an older milestone of which I knew nothing.

And for that knowledge I have Tricia Lesley to thank who unearthed a wonderful history of Woolwich which gives a detailed description of the milestone and the war memorial.

“Originally on the other side of the road, having been placed there by the New Cross Turnpike Trust, the eighth milestone out of London on the Old Dover Road was accidentally fractured by a Borough Council steam roller during road repairs in 1903.

The Dartford plate had been totally destroyed in the collision.

It was thrown aside to be broken up but Vicar Wilson, with authority from the Borough Engineer removed the pieces to the church grounds where they were dowelled together and set up near the church door.

When the church war memorial was being discussed, Col. Bagnold, chairman of the parish war memorial committee, suggested fixing on the eastern side of the stone a plate indicating the distance to Ypres, with the addition of figures telling of the casualties incurred in defending the salient.  

The Director-general of the Ordinance Survey was called and arrived at the figure of 130 miles to the cloth Hall, correct to one-tenth of a mile.

The whole memorial was unveiled by Major General Sir Webb Gillman and dedicated by the Rector of Woolwich in October, 1922."*

All of which leaves me to say I have the book on order, and wish I had the opportunity to repeat the magic adventure in the woods.

Pictures; memorial stone, courtesy of Running Past, @running_past, Shooters Hill, courtesy of Jean Gammons, 1977 and cover of The Woolwich Story 

* The Woolwich Story, 1970, E. F. E. Jefferson.

Wishing you were here.......Eltham in the past, Nu 1 walking up to Shooters Hill in 1873

An occasional series which is short on words and just lets your imagination roam.

This is a section of the OS map for Kent First Edition, 1858-73.

If like me you enjoy looking at maps and plotting journeys, I leave you with it.

Picture; detail from the OS map of Kent 1858-73, sheet 02

Walking along Shooters Hill in the 1840s with the help of Darrell Spurgeon

Severndroog Castle, 1784

It’s another story from Shooters Hill.

Over the last few days I have been wandering over the tiny community that lived on this northern edge of Eltham.

And today it’s the landmarks courtesy of Darrell Spurgeon and his Discover Eltham which was published in 1992 and issued as a revised edition in 2000.

The walk along Shooters Hill contains much about the place including Christ Church, the Ypres milestone, the Memorial Hospital, and Castle House Lodge along with Eltham Common the various woods and Holbrook House.

And for those who want to drop down beyond the summit there is even more.

But today I rather fancy staying the land marks which would have been familiar to the people who lived here in the 1840s, and of these I have chosen Castle House Lodge, Severndroog Castle, Holbrook House, and the Bull Inn.

“Castle House Lodge, 5. An early 19th century house, originally the lodge for Castle House (built 1823 demolished 1948) whose site is now in the grounds of the Memorial Hospital.

Severndroog Castle, 8.A tall triangular battlemented tower with hexagonal turrets, surrounded by trees in Castle Wood; and extraordinary Gothic folly, it was built to a design of Richard Jupp in 1784. 

The original main entrance is on the south-west face; the other original entrance doors are blocked, with only the fanlights remaining; the small doors under the turrets were added later.  The inscription on the stone plaque over the original main entrance on the south west face is inscribed on a tablet

'Severndroog Castle was built by the widow of Sir William James, a commander in the East India Company, to celebrate his naval exploits, in particular the capture in 1755 of the island fortress of Severndroog off the Malabar Coast of India.  At the time the castle was just north of the grounds of the James mansion of Park Farm Place, Eltham.'

Holbrook House, 162 Shooters Hill.  A stuccoed villa circa 1838, which may incorporate some late 18th century structure; the bay window was added in 1862, and extensions to the rear in the late 19th century.

The Bull, 19. A red brick pub of 1881, ....... the date stone (‘built 1749, rebuilt 1881’)is over the original corner entrance now bricked up.  About 65 metres to the east is a horse mounting block with three steps, dating back at least to 1750.  

It is in front of the site of the orginal pub called the Bull, which was a large and well known tavern, built circa 1749 9possibly much earlier) and demolished in 1881.  The block was re-erected here in 1929, but almost certainly the wrong way up.”

Like many I have fond memories of wandering the woods and especially of Severndroog Castle.

Now I am not given over to idle speculation especially of the historical kind but I do wonder whether the four children of George and Mary Field who ran the Bull in the June of 1841  wandered across the road an into Castle Wood to the folly.

It may be romantic tosh but it is a powerful link back to the community who lived on Shooters Hill a hundred and seventy years ago.


Pictures; Severndroog Castle and map from Discover Eltham

* Discover Eltham, Darrell Spurgeon, Greenwich Guide Books, 2000

On Shooters Hill in 1872

I am on one of those journeys and I am pretty much going to let the map do the business.  

We are on Shooters Hill in 1872 and we are looking at the OS map of London for that year.

Now maps especially old ones can at first glance be difficult to make sense of.  So to help the Bull Inn is there almost dead centre.

It was a much bigger place than we know today and was built around 1749, although it could be older.  It was demolished in 1881 to make way for the present one.

And dotted around are the fine houses of the rich set back in their own grounds.

What I particularly like are the signs for pumps.

Picture; detail from the OS for London, 1868-72, courtesy of Digital Archives, http://www.digitalarchives.co.uk/

Out from Shooter’s Hill …………..

I am a great fan of John King’s pictures, and this ranks as one of my favourites.

We are on Occupation Lane, which is off Shrewsbury Lane, which in turn is off Shooters Hill.

In the 1960s, I often walked up from our house on Well Hall Road, through the woods, and looked out on the city laid out below.

Now I haven’t been back for years, and I am not sure the scene today would be one I liked.

That said, things change and John has captured perfectly the towers in the distance with the old roof tops of a different time.

Location; Shooter’s Hill

Picture; Looking out from Occupation Lane, 2019 from the collection of John King

On Shooters Hill ………………… with We Anchor in Hope

Now I have no memory of the pub We Anchor in Hope.

But then when I roamed over the woods and down Shooter’s Hill and on to Welling, I was still well under the age when “dirty beer” was an attraction.

Still I am very pleased that Brian sent this picture over this morning, because it captures perfectly this stretch of the old road as I remember it.

The picture postcard is undated, but I am guessing we will be sometime in the late 1940s into the following decade and a bit.

That said there will be an expert on London buses who will be able to offer up chapter and verse on the date this one plied its route.

As to the pub, here too I am out of my comfort zone and a trawl of my limited London directories has yet to turn up any information.

Still, I am pleased to say it is still there today and is part of the Green King chain which manages many of the pubs I have researched and written about.

There will be those who are sniffy about such chains, advancing ever the cause of the independent brewery or landlord.

Which just leaves me to thank Brian,  appeal for more information, and point out before someone does that We Anchor in Hope is actually at 320 Bellgrove Road, Welling, DA16 3 RW

And to add this is  a fine shot of the old road climbing west.

And quick as a flash, Brian having read the story of his picture postcard, added a link to a bit more background.

But as ever I shall not lift someone else's research and instead just point you to the link.**


Location Welling

Picture; Shooters Hill, Welling, Kent, date unknown, from the collection of Brian Norbury

* We Anchor in Hope,  https://www.greeneking-pubs.co.uk/pubs/kent/we-anchor-in-hope/

**We Anchor in Hope, Belle Grove Road, East Wickham, Welling, https://pubwiki.co.uk/KentPubs/EastWickham/AnchorinHope.shtml

On Shooters Hill looking out across the city

I like this picture from Shooter’s Hill looking out across the sky line.

It was taken in late January in the early afternoon, just before the light began to fade.

And it is a scene I would never have known for when I was growing up  in Eltham and wandering from our house on Well Hall Road up  through the woods to gaze across London from that same vantage point none of those tall buildings existed.

So for a Londoner who has now lived more of his life in the North it is an image which sums up what has happened to the city of my birth.

That said you can still retreat into the tranquilly of the woods leaving those tall towers of commerce and bustle behind and recapture something more magical.

But before I slip any further into a nostalgic mood I shall just thank Jean and Richard for the picture and the others she took on that Saturday ably assisted by her husband.

Picture; from the collection of Richard and Jean Low, January 2014

What they did to this bit of Shooters Hill

Well here is one they slipped past me.

We are on Shooters Hill in the summer of 1977 and my old friend Jean was passing with her camera.

And what a good job she did, because in the intervening 37 years, the little newsagent’s lock up has been converted into a two storey property, all white and pebbled dashed and Ace Auto Electrical lurking just beyond the Red Lion car park is a Convenience Store.

Now comparing the two scenes I have to say that there has been a distinct improvement.

It just goes to show that not everything urns out for the worst.

Picture; Shooters Hill in 1977, from the collection of Jean Gammons.

The Post Office on Shooters Hill

A short series looking at the story behind the picture.

We are on Shooters Hill at number 53, and today it is a convenience store but once it a post office, and I am indebted to my friend Jean who supplied the picture and story behind it.

“This is the old post office on Shooters Hill which was the dropping point for Eltham’s mail carried by the Dover Mail Coach, after the post office was taken away from the old Red Lion in the 1830s.  

This building continued as Shooters Hill post office until 1971.”

Picture; of the former Post Office in 1977 from and text from Jean Gammons

The lost Eltham & Woolwich pictures ...... no. 43 ..... the Castle on the hill

Now the story of Severndroog Castle is pretty well known and so the story of this 47 year old picture rests with the image.

It was taken with one of those old clunky instamatic cameras, which processed the film straight away and turned out the image in minutes.

The film was expensive and from memory you only got eight or so shots, but there was something magical about the instant nature of the process.

Today the mobile phone or the digital camera will do it equally fast with the added advantage that it can be sent on to family and friends across the planet.

But in 1970 this was pretty neat, and how better to use the camera than to wander up Shooters Hill.

Someone far more expert than me will be able to explain just how the camera managed to create that blotch to the right of the Castle.

It is quite clearly a tree but a tree which shouldn’t be there, so perhaps the camera didn’t quite work.

Answers on the back of a post card addressed to the Friends of Severndroog Castle or just add a comment to the blog.

Location; Shooters Hill

Picture; Severndroog Castle, circa 1970,  from the Simpson family collection 

One to do ..... Trams around Shooters Hill .... the talk ... tomorrow

Now here is one to read and do from that excellent site Shooters Hill, which has news of a talk on Trams around Shooters Hill.

Woolwich Tramshed

Now I missed the old trams but have never lost a fascination for them, more so because of  our own growing set of trams and routes across Manchester and beyond.

If I could I would love to be at the talk tomorrow, especially to learn about the ones that rumbled past our home on Well Hall Road and of nights in the Tramshed in the 1970s.

The talk is from the Shooters Hill Local History Group and will be at Shrewsbury House on Thursday, March 17, for Shooters Hill Local History Group‘s next meeting:  

All are welcome at the event which starts at 8.00pm. There is a small visitors’ fee to cover the cost of the room.

Location; Shooters Hill, London

Pictures; Woolwich Tramshed courtesy of Shooters Hill


*Trams around Shooters Hill talk at Shooters Hill Local History Group, http://e-shootershill.co.uk/shlhg-5/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+e-shootershill+%28e-shootershill%29

Of lost water courses and hidden places, Chorlton Brook and the River Wogebourne

Now when you write about rural communities in the past you quickly become aware just how important water courses, ponds and wells were to the well being of the place and the success of agriculture.

As few of us are directly involved in farming and only visit the countryside the connection with open water is less vital.

It comes in pipes from reservoirs high up in Derbyshire and the Lakes and is there at the turn of a tap.

And many of the brooks and rivers which openly flowed across south Manchester have long since been buried underground or have just dried up, and with them have gone the ponds and wells which have  been drained or filled in.

It remains one of my abiding fascinations and long after the book on Chorlton’s rural past* was finished I continue to hunt out the old water courses and areas of surface water.

Stream in Shooters Hill Golf Course

And of course what applied to Chorlton also applies to Eltham which is that other place I often write about.

It too was a rural community on the edge of a big city and many of its residents made a living from farming and market gardening.

So I was drawn to two articles in Shooters Hill** which is a wonderful blog about an area of Eltham I know well.

Both stories feature water courses and the search for ones that have been lost.

Now I have never thought it proper to lift other people’s research and work.  It is that simple observation that if it has been done well the first times I am not going to try and do better.

Instead I shall point you to the two links below on Shooters Hill Springs and The Lost River Wogebourne.

Both are excellent stories starting with a bit of detection and taking you by degree across both time and place in the search for these water courses.

They are  set in south east London but have an instant application to Chorlton and south Manchester because the process of identifying the streams and brooks, matching up the historical sources and oral testimony with old maps and modern ones is equally applicable to Chorlton.

Stream through Woodlands Farm

So while the the Chorlton Brook, is still visible  the Longford Brook, and the Black Brook have long gone underground, while the Rough Leech Gutter which is  my own favourite, was lost  and pretty much forgotten about.

And all of this goes a long way to explaining why  Eltham regularly appears on a blog about Chorlton.

Both were and are similar so reading about one gives a context to the history of the other.

After all what happened in Chorlton is replicated in Whaley Range, Fallowfield, Burnage and beyond so it makes sense.

And I like Eltham.

Pictures; Holland Wood from the Lloyd Collection, and reamining pictures courtesy of Shooters Hill, http://e-shootershill.co.uk/


*The Story of Chorlton-cum-Hardy, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/the-story-of-chorlton-cum-hardy.html
**Shooters Hill Springs, http://e-shootershill.co.uk/springs/ & The Lost River Wogebourne, http://e-shootershill.co.uk/wogebourne/

What to do in Eltham in half term

Now half term is just around the corner and when my lads were young I was always on the look out for events.

And so here courtesy of e-ShootersHill*
 is a link to half term events at Woodlands Farm.

So there you have it, enough said, go off and book and enjoy.

Wednesday 19th February — Wildlife Explorers’ Trail 10am-2pm FREE

Winter is a great time to spot signs of animals as the mud means tracks are more visible and the bare trees allow us to see the birds more clearly. Come to Woodlands Farm to take part in our free trail to spot signs of animals that spend their winter here.

Thursday 20th February – Print yourself a picture 1-3pm £1
Come along for our afternoon of printing. Come up with your own pattern or design and then using special paint and rollers you can print this picture onto paper to take home with you. Just drop in to make your own print.

Friday 21st February — Get Wild in the Woods 11am-1pm £2
Come and join us in the woods as we learn how to survive in the wild. Have a go at shelter building, wild cooking over a fire and learn what animals need to survive.
Age 7+ Booking essential, to book call 020 8319 8900

For more information on these events or to book please contact the Farm on 020 8319 8900 or email education@thewoodlandsfarmtrust.org

Parking is limited so please use public transport where possible.

* e-ShootersHill, http://e-shootershill.co.uk/

Shooters Hill Local History Group – Prisoners of War and the Local Community tonight at 8... see below

Shooters Hill Golf Course – site of a WWII PoW Camp

Now I just love local history groups and as I have said before I happily hoover them up, read their blogs and try to get to some of their meetings.

So imagine my disappointment about not getting a plug in for Shooters Hill Local History Group's talk this evening, at Shrewsbury House starting at 8.00pm.

"There is a small charge to cover the cost of the room. It features a talk by local archaeologist Andy Brockman entitled ‘Enemies no Longer: POW Working Company 1020 and the community of Shooters Hill and Welling’.

Andy Brockman is a Conflict Archaeologist, whose previous Shooters Hill work includes the Digging Dad’s Army project and the Time Team Blitzkreig on Shooters Hill episode. He was also Lead Archaeologist on the recent Burma Spitfires Project and is project manager at the archaeology and environmental campaigning group Mortimer.

The Prisoner of War camp, according to David Lloyd Bathe’s “Steeped In History”, housed 400 German and Italian prisoners. It included barracks for the prisoners, a recreation room, kitchen, officers’ mess, infirmary and cobblers and tailors shop. 

The cookhouse was situated near the golf course’s 17th green. The prisoners’ activities included working in the warehouses at the North Woolwich docks and helping with the potato harvest at Woodlands Farm. Surprisingly they were allowed to move freely within a 5-mile radius of the camp during daylight hours.”

I was alerted by that excellent site e – Shooters Hill* which I have featured already.

Of course Chorlton-cum-Hardy is a long way from Shooters Hill so I shall content myself with waiting for the feed back

*http://eshootershill.co.uk/shlhg/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+e-shootershill+%28e-shootershill%29&utm_content=Yahoo%21+Mail