Lost images of Whalley Range part 3 the Whalley Hotel

I only ever once visited the Whalley Hotel which I think was sometime around the summer of 1975.

There was never any particular reason for this other than it was always somewhere I passed on the bus from town home to Chorlton, and once on the bus it always seemed a faff to get off.

That said the place has dominated the corner since the 1890s.

From the outside it doesn’t seem to have changed much.

The hedges have gone as has the large building which is now the rear car park.

And the houses along Withington Road have also been demolished.

Like some of the other Whalley Range pictures I have been featuring I am hoping that these of the Whalley will stir a few memories which might appear as a post.

Of course it has now closed, and has been converted into residential use.

Picture; The Whalley Hotel, Whalley Range, Upper Chorlton Road, 1960, A.H.Downes, m40816, m40813, m40814, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council

“Wally of the Whalley” Says Goodbye ......... stories of the Whalley Hotel

“Wally of the Whalley” Says Goodbye

It is one of those headlines that you just can’t miss.

“Wally of the Whalley” Says Goodbye appeared in the Manchester City News for November 16th 1951 and featured Mr and Mrs Summer who had run the Whalley Hotel for four years.

Mr Wally Summer and his wife Ethel were leaving Manchester for Anglesey, where they were to take over the Anglesey Arms.

“It's going to be a wrench leaving” he told the City News, “we’ve made hundreds of friends since we came to Brooks’ Bar.  I’ve been amazed at the number of people who have come up to wish us luck.”*

The Anglesey Arms is still there just at the edge of the Menai Bridge.

Now in the fullness of time I would like to find out more about Mr and Mrs Summer.

Painting; The Whalley Hotel,  © 2013 Peter Topping, Paintings from Pictures,
Web: www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk

Facebook:  Paintings from Pictures
*Manchester City News November 16, 1951

Inside Tommy Ducks one day in 1960 ......... reflecting on where all the pictures went

Now one of the things that continues to puzzle me is the absence of pictures of the inside of Manchester pubs.

I suppose the grand professional photographers never saw it as a suitable subject while everyone else was too busy enjoying themselves to bother.

Of course tucked away in cupboards and family albums there will be a shedful of snaps recording birthdays, nights out and romantic moments but for obvious reasons these rarely get entered in to the archives.

There are exceptions.

I have some fine pictures by Bill Brandt of London pubs in the 1940s and Humphrey Spender’s Bolton pictures from a decade earlier but there must be loads more.

I can think of only a few in the collection from Chorlton and have yet to come across many from elsewhere in Greater Manchester.

All of which made this discovery of these three both a bit of a find and an introduction into a world of pubs which we have pretty much lost.

All three date from 1960 and were taken in Tommy Ducks on East Street, and come from a time long before the coffins or the display on the ceiling.

Back then it was a pub with little in the way of frills.

It served beer, offered companionship and like all pubs of the time, opened at 11, closed at 3 and reopened in the evening till 10.30 with an extension of just half an hour on Fridays and Saturdays.

And woe betide any landlord who infringed those licensing hours because they remained one of the reasons why they could lose their pub.

For most of us back then those time slots pretty much suited our lives.  During the week you were at work and while you might slip in for a pint at dinner time it was usually just the one.

Nor could most of us afford going down the pub every evening and even if you did 10.30 was a sensible time to be turfed out if you had to be at work for 8 in the morning.

And I have to say after a couple of hours I had had enough.  We always went down for the last hour, doubled up at last orders and went away satisfied.

That said it would only be in the morning when you smelt what you had worn the night before that the enormity of what you had inhaled from cigarette smoke really hit home.

Nor did it matter whether it was the vault or the saloon they were full of the stuff.

I can still remember the odd late afternoon in a city centre pub watching the sunlight mingle with the smoke and catching sight of the yellowing ceiling and paintwork which had once been white but was now a darkening yellow.

Added to which if you touched the woodwork it had a slightly sticky feel which clung to your fingers.

Not that I was over bothered back then by such things because  that was just how it was.

In the same way the decor of most pubs I visited was pretty basic.  You might get the odd framed picture which unlike now didn’t trade on nostalgic Manchester.

Instead there would be the tired painting of an elk which competed with an equally faded photograph of a

pub day out to Rhyl and a dozen or so  posters for the breweries best bitter along with a hand written notice of the next four darts fixtures.

All of which brings me back to Tommy Ducks one day in 1960 when Mr H. W. Beaumont took his pictures, none of which I would have come across had I not featured Peter’s painting of the pub sometime before it was demolished in 1993.

Pictures; inside Tommy Ducks, 1960, H W Beaumont, m50721, m50272, and m502775, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

Painting; Tommy Ducks © 2011 Peter Topping

Web: www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk

Facebook: Paintings from Pictures https://www.facebook.com/paintingsfrompictures

Sunday night in the Lloyds ............ memories of the 1970s

Standing outside the pub in 1979

The first in a short series which looks at what Chorlton was like in the recent past.

Today Lorna remembers the Lloyds Hotel in the 1970s.

Back then the pub still retained its small more intimate set of rooms where if you wanted you could have one of those quiet evenings almost to yourselves with just the regular visit from the waiter who could be summoned from the bar by the push button on the wall.

Those of us who went in there will also remember the staircase which gave access to the upstairs and it was there on Sunday nights that Lorna remembers in this piece she wrote for the blog.

"I remember the Lloyds in the early 1970's when Bill Caroll was the landlord and ruled the pub with a "rod of iron". 

Sunday night upstairs in the top room was very popular and people went in early to make sure they got the best seats in order to listen to the variety of live singers (no karaoke then) who turned up voluntarily each week. 

Highlight of the night was waiting to see who would be 'top of the bill'. 

It was usually Bill, who was an ex policeman, or Jimmy Gale, who were both very good singers. 

Little Jimmy would get everyone in the swing by singing Mardi Gras where all would join in with great gusto. 

Good memories.

I should add that Sunday night always finished with the same two songs where everyone linked arms and sang together. First 'Strolling' followed by 'I'll See You In My Dreams'"

It would be nice to hear other stories about the Lloyds. I am trying to remember the name of the piano player. A Mr Quinn from Keppel Road used to step in now and again, but he was not the regular . Mr Quinn was piano player in the Royal Oak

Lorna has promised to go looking for pictures and they are important because all too often it is photographs of the inside of pubs which seldom survive.

And in the meantime perhaps it will spark off other memories we can share.

Location; Chorlton-cum-Hardy

Sunday in the Lloyds by Lorna Davies, 2015

Picture; the Lloyds Hotel, 1979, from the collection of Tony Walker

The grim side to some of our Manchester pubs

Now I am back with Peterloo and the dastardly actions of the Manchester Yeomanry who on August 16th, 1819, charged a peaceful crowd in St Peter’s Fields, leaving many dead and wounded.

The Manchester Yeomanry in action, 1819

And over the last few days I have been exploring* the background of the 101 men listed in the Northern Star as participating in the outrage.**

We can track the occupations of 87 of them, and they represent a cross section of the population, with over a third drawn from the “people of plenty”, another 29% who made their living as publicans and shopkeepers, which left the rest as a mix of skilled, and manual workers, with the odd surprises which include a “Professor of Dance” and a quack doctor.

But today I am interested in the nine publicans.  They were William Bowker of the King's Head at 4 Old Shambles, John Beeston who ran the Windsor Castle in Salford, and later took over the George at 47 Deansgate, and William Benson of the Fox at 1 Jackson’s Row.

The Briton's Protection, 2016 as seen in the book

To these three we can add Mr. Burgess of the Hen & Chicken on 163 Deansgate, Parker Horsefield of the Briton’s Protection on Waterloo Street by Great Bridgewater Street, Edward Hall of the Blue Cap at 80 Greengate, Jacob Chadderton who offered up beer and cheer at the Wool Pack in Pendleton, John Reid of the Globe, Gartside Street and Samuel Lees of the Crown and Thistle, 9 Half Street, Manchester.

Of these I am pretty sure that only one of the nine pubs still in business is the Briton’s Protection, but some will have lasted longer than others.

So, while the Blue Cap on Greengate had vanished by 1850, the Windsor Castle on New Windsor in Salford was still there thirty-one years after Peterloo.

The Windsor Castle Salford, 1850

Had I come across this bit of information back in 2016, it might well have been included in our book on city centre Manchester Pubs, that said as the book is only about ones you can visit today that would have limited the inclusion of the Manchester Yeomanry landlords to just the Briton’s Protection.

That said, I see no reason why I shouldn’t pursue the remaining eight, starting with the Fox on the corner of Deansgate and Jackson’s Row which was still selling happiness or sadness in 1844, but now sits under Onward Building.

So in the fullness of time we  shall see just what can be found out about the two Salford pubs and their landlords, followed up by the more  Manchester landlords and their pubs.

The Fox, Jacksons Row, 1844

Location; Manchester and Salford

Pictures; "Manchester Heroes", Peterloo, print from etching by unknown artist, published by S W Fores, 1819, m07587, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass, New Windsor, Salter’s Street Directory, 1850,  The Fox Inn, Jackson’s Row, 1844, from the OS for Manchester & Salford, 1844, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/


*The Manchester Yeomanry, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/2019/08/exploring-butchers-of-peterloo-101-men.html

**The Northern Star, Chartist newspaper, August 20th 1842

*** Manchester Pubs- The Stories Behind the Doors, Centre Centre along with  our two companion volumes,  Manchester Pubs- The Stories Behind the Doors, Chorlton-cum-Hardy, and  Manchester Pubs- The Stories Behind the Doors are available from www.pubbooks.co.uk and Chorlton Books

The Great Bank Note Robbery ........ a pub on Hilton Street and a mystery ......... the story we left out

Now I am pretty sure that the Great Bank Note Robbery took place in the Crown and Anchor on the corner of Hilton and Port Street on June 13 1868.

The Crown & Anchor, 2016

I can’t be sure because the press reports only referred to a “beer house in Hilton Street, Port Street.”*

But a trawl of the directories throws up just two beer shops on Hilton Street of which only the Crown and Anchor occupied the corner plot with Port Street and so  it must have been there that a Mr John Rhodes of 5 Stevenson Square was robbed of £1,500.

This was a lot of money but the story seems to have remained unreported for six days, which is all the more remarkable given that June 11th seems to have been a pretty slow news day.

In Parliament the Married Women’s Property Bill which would allow married women to be the legal owners of the money they earned and to inherit property went to its Second Reading, there was an explosion at sea on a yacht off Pontefract causing the death of two sailors and away on the Continent the Federal Council of North German States asked Chancellor Bismarck of Prussia to negotiate on their behalf “for the exemption of private property captured at sea in times of war.” 

The Crown & Anchor, 1851

And here in Manchester the Corporation debated how much space to give the Gas Committee in the new Town Hall to be built in Albert Square and what measures could be taken to prevent the Irwell flooding.

That said I rather think there may have been a scandal in the making given that there was a move to “appoint a committee to inquire and report to the Council as to the truthfulness or otherwise of certain reports which reflect very much to the discredit of the Council and Parks Committee in particular.”*

All of which pushed “the Great Bank Note Robbery” off the front page and when it finally did hit the paper it was confined to page six and as given just twenty lines.

The second newspaper story, Manchester Guardian June 1868

The City Police had arrested Joseph Garner and his wife Harriet who lived in a court off Bury Street in Salford along with Hartley Tillotson and Paul Hampson.

A search of the property turned up two £5 notes while “on Tillotson £17. 15s,2d was found and on Hampson £2.2s 6½d [and] Mr Rhodes identified Harriet Garner as having been, in company with another woman, in the beer house where he was robbed.  When he (Mr Rhodes) left the house he saw Tillotson pass him.”*

Having been arrested they came up in the City Court on the 22nd but as no further evidence was forth coming the four were discharged.

And with that Mr Rhodes seems to vanish.  He is not listed in Stevenson Square in 1876 and there are no more references to the bank notes.  And he does appear an elusive chap I can’t find him on the census returns for either 1861 or ’71 and he was not in Stevenson Square much before the alleged crime too place.

When I told Peter the story we pondered on where in the Crown and Anchor the unfortunate Mr Rhodes would have sat and just how well he may have known Harriet Garner.

Of course we will never know, which is why sadly we chose not to include the story  in the book, but when you have read the entry on the Crown and Anchor you may well want to visit the pub and let your imagination flow.

And that just leave me to say that Manchester Pubs – The Stories Behind The Doors – City Centre is available  from www.pubbooks.co.uk  and the stories about how the book was written can be read by following the link A new book on Manchester Pubs,

Pictures; the Crown and Anchor and Anchor, 2016, and in 1851 from Adshead map of Manchester, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/ and an extract from the Manchester Guardian, June 16 1868, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

*Manchester Guardian June 11 1868

Just when you thought you knew the age of the Trevor Arms on Beech Road

The Trevor was my local from 1976 well into the middle of the next decade and was a busy and happy place.

At the time and until quite recently I gave little thought to its history, it was simply the pub run by Stan and Mona and their daughter Christine and always a place where you find someone you knew to talk to.

If I did give its past any thought I just assumed the date above the door of 1908 was when it was opened, but beer was being sold from this spot from 1879.

Back then the site was occupied by a row of wattle and daub cottages, one of which had been the home of Mary Crowther who was made to do penance in the church at the beginning of the 19th century.

It is unclear what Mary had done but during the closing decades of the eighteenth century she had given birth to three illegitimate children and it may be that it was for this that she was made to do penance.

She was the last person to do so, and lived out her life, with one of her sons in the cottage and was buried in the parish church yard.

By 1871 one of these cottages was owned by the Langford family.

Jonathan Langford came from an old Chorlton family and a decade earlier had given his occupation as a "gardener" and lived on Dark Lane.

In 1874 his daughter Elizabeth was living there and running the shop and  by 1879 she was renting it out to a succession of “beer housekeepers.”

The last of these tenants was William Downs.  By 1897 the property was transferred to Groves and Whitnall which had taken over the Regent Road Brewery in 1868 and began a rapid expansion which by the time they were registered in 1899 included nearly 600 pubs.

Now there is a lot more I want to know about Mrs Langford as well as William Downs who in 1898 was superseded by Miss Mary Catherine Hayes.

But that is for another story.

Picture; the Trevor early 20th century from the collection of Tony Walker

A pub ...... some oysters .... and a tale of moving a landmark

Pretty much everyone will have a story about Sinclair's and the Old Wellington.

So I won't offer up my own.

I will just wait and see.

Location; Manchester

Picture; the landmark with beer, 2022, from the collection of Andrew Simpson

Pubs I think I might have drunk in ..............

The trouble with being 72 is that lots of things I did blend into a heap of vague memories.

So, I might well have drunk in the Anson in Longsight.

Of course, being a pub the memories do have a habit of becoming even more hazy.

Not so Andy Robertson who took a wander across Longsight recently and recorded a few lost pubs, adding “this is the ex-Anson Hotel on Beresford Rd, Longsight. 

It was one of the many typical such "estate " pubs that sprang up everywhere in the thirties. 

Nearly all are closed and many demolished. 

Many have been put to other uses like the Anson which houses an Asian food outlet/wholesalers and other businesses. 

Many buildings still exist today here in Manchester, e.g., Southern Hotel in Chorlton, Yew Tree in Wythenshawe. 

Evidence of its pub existence can be seen in the Outdoor sign and Threlfalls sign, which must have been hidden for many years.”

Now if you trawl the newspaper records for the early decades of the last century, you can come across reports of the both the breweries and the City Council conduction polls of the residents to ascertain support for a proposed pub, and not unsurprising in most cases the vote went the way of Bolly Brewer.

Location; Longsight

Pictures; the Anson, 2022, from the collection of Andy Robertson, and the Anson in 1971, by B Garth,  m49180, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

The Lord Nelson on Newton Street …… no longer will it celebrate the Battle of Trafalgar

Now I am the first to admit that the title is a tad contrived.

The Lord Nelson circa 2010

But the 27 ships of the Royal Navy were commanded by Admiral Nelson when it engaged a larger force of French and Spanish ships at the Battle of Trafalgar.

The outcome was a victory for the Royal Navy, although Nelson died during the battle, and like so many victorious commanders he gave his name to a string of pubs across the country.

Here in Manchester and Salford, Pigot’s Directory for 1828-9 listed six pubs bearing the Admiral’s name and one of these was the Lord Nelson on Newton Street, when it was run by a Robert Walker. Mr. Walker is a shadowy figure, and I can find no reference to him in the Rate Books till 1840, but he will be there, I just haven’t found him yet.  

But then I can’t locate him on the census returns.  There are lots of Robert Walker’s in Manchester in 1841, but not one of them was a publican.

So I shall have to revert to the pub, which in Michael’s picture carried the date of 1895, which will be when it was rebuilt.

The Lord Nelson, 1851

The early pub was quite a substantial one taking up a largish footprint according to several maps from the middle decades of the 19^th century.

 Leaving me just to add it closed around 2010 and was demolished the following year, after which it became a building site between 2016 and 18, and is now one of those modern buildings the city seems to throw up from Ancoats across to Deansgate.*

 Pictures; The Lord Nelson, circa 2010, courtesy of Michael Markey, and the pub in 1851, from Adshead’s map of Manchester, 1851, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, https://digitalarchives.co.uk/

 *Pubs of Manchester, http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.com/search?q=lord+nelson

Thank you Nancy Swanick ……… fifty years in charge of the Peveril of the Peak

Yesterday was a special event as family, friends and members of CAMRA came together to celebrate Nancy Swanick’s fifty years in charge of the Peveril of the Peak, which is one of the most loved traditional pubs in Manchester.

Back in the 1970s when pubs and breweries were falling over themselves to dump traditionally made beers in favour of that other stuff, Nancy maintained a house which offered and championed real ales.

And in recognition of that dedication to serving up good beer over half a century, three representatives from CAMRA along with members of the group presented Nancy with a special award and a painting of the Peveril.

Nik Antona who is the National Chair of CAMRA, presented a special award to “Theresa Nancy Swanick Licensee of the Pevril of the Peak, in recognition of 50 years in residence”, and spoke warmly of her steadfast commitment to serving up the finest ales and beers, reflecting that the Campaign for Real Ale was also celebrating its half century.

This was fallowed by the presentation by Heather Airlie of a painting of the pub.  Heather is the Chair of the City Branch of CAMRA and along with Steve Ingham who is Pubs Preservation Officer commissioned the painting from Peter Topping.

Peter’s painting was one of a series on Manchester pubs he did for the book, Manchester Pubs, The Stories Behind the Doors, City Centre.

The book tells the story of 78 iconic city pubs, focusing on their stories and arranged in 15 walks allowing the reader to wander a selected route, taking in the pubs and their surroundings.

At the outset Andrew Simpson who researched and wrote the stories and Peter who painted the paintings and sourced many fine old photographs were convinced that the Peveril of the Peak should be the cover pub.

A second edition of the book is now in preparation, and of the other two pub books, the one on Chorlton-cum-Hardy is currently out of print, but the other about Didsbury's pubs and bars is  available from www.pubbooks.co.uk

Leaving me just to say that it was a wonderful night, and to  thank CAMRA and the manager Nadim Hammad and staff of the "Peveril" who organised the Piper, along with a free bar and a selection of food to mark this significant event.

Location; Manchester

Picture; Nancy Swanick, receiving the CAMRA special award, 2021, from the collection of Peter Topping

Painting; Peveril of the Peak,  © 2013 Peter Topping, Paintings from Pictures, www.paintingsfrompictures.co.uk

* CAMRA, Campaign For Real Ale, https://camra.org.uk/

** Manchester Pubs, The Stories Behind the Doors, City Centre, Peter Topping & Andrew Simpson, 2016, Topper Publications

Just thirty years ago on Withy Grove .......... from the new collection

Now I maintain and I maintain most strongly that some of the most fascinating images of the twin cities come from the last four decades.

The old black and white photographs from the late 19th and early 20th centuries are a passport back into a time before now but in their way so are those taken in the last four decades.

They show a Manchester and Salford which is almost like now but not quite and so bits are familiar but others might as well be from 1900.

It is like looking through a dirty window which offers up only half a picture.

All of which is an introduction into a new collection from John Casey which he has been kindly sharing with me over the last few weeks, and as he sends them across I have been featuring them.

Here are two of Withy Grove from the 1980s which will set people going.  For some it will be spotting the buildings they remember and for others it will be a revealing insight into what has gone.

What intrigue me also are the two pubs.  The Lower Turks Head was for a while closed and only reopened recently while the Hare and Hounds had a very different colour scheme.

Many will know that these two along with another seventy six have been close to my heart over the last year as I worked with Peter Topping on the book Manchester Pubs*

I could at this stage make some quite valid links to John’s pictures of the two pubs and what the pubs look
like today as seen in the book.

But that would be outrageous self promotion.

Instead look out for the story on the Swan with Two Necks which never made the book but was caught on camera by John in the 1980s.

Location; Manchester

Pictures; Withy Grove in the 1980s from the collection of John Casey

You can order the book from www.pubbooks.co.uk or Chorlton Bookshop.

*A new book on Manchester Pubs, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/A%20new%20book%20on%20Manchester%20Pubs

No more the Church Inn ........... on Cambridge Street

Farewell the Church Inn

Happier Times, 2015

You were a pub I never visited, 

But friends spoke highly of you

And of that long tradition of dispensing beer

Which stretched back to 1852.

My sources  tell me that  long before you sold beer and cheer*

You were one or two residential dwellings, 

And had celebrated your fifteenth birthday

Before the old Queen came to the throne in 1837.

And now you have gone …… closed in 2016, and demolished in 2021

In your place will rise “62 units and associated landscape

2015

And highway works”**

It wasn’t easy I understand

And the proposed plans were turned down twice, before final acceptance.

No more will shouts of last orders drift across Cambridge Street

And in their place will be heard the sounds of earnest and not so earnest students

Unhappy times, 2019

My old friend Andy recorded you in happier times, 

And may even have ordered up a pint of J W Lees

But his last visit was to view a hole in the ground

A sad end to the Church Inn

Location; Hulme

Pictures; The Church Inn, 2015-2019, from the collection of Andy Robertson 

Hole in the ground, 2021

*The Church Inn Hulme, Manchester, Heritage Appraisal, Stephen Levrant,  Stephen Levrant Heritage Architecture Ltd, https://www.heritagearchitecture.co.uk/

**Planning application 125654/FO/2019 | Erection of a nine-storey purpose built student accommodation building comprising 62 units and associated landscape and highway works, following demolition of existing structures | Former Church Inn 84 Cambridge Street Manchester M15 6BP, Manchester City Council Planning Portal, https://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=Q23IPBBC03O00

The Jolly Angler .......a city centre pub ..... soon to close its doors for the last time

The Jolly Angler is a pub either you know about and love or is one that someone told you about, because it was a bit off the beaten track.

For years it has stood as an almost isolated beacon surrounded by what had once been busy enterprises, of which a few still exist.

As later as the 1950s there were two saw mills, a clutch of engineering works, a heap of old canal warehouses and plenty of small terrace housing, all of which would have offered up a host of clients for the pub.

And now things are going full circle with the return of residential apartments within a few minutes walk of the pub.

But alas the pub is closing.

I picked up a tweet at the weekend from the landlord that, “It’s with a heavy heart that we tell all our @TheJollyAngler regulars, new visitors and visitors still to come that we will be closing after Xmas this year. The building is sold and will not continue to operate as a pub. We are gutted but grateful we have a few more months”.

Now isn’t the time to go looking for the plans someone will have for the area, and instead I shall just reflect that there are many who will remember it with fondness.

It featured in our book on city centre Manchester pubs, and is the first of the 76 which were serving up beer and good cheer, back in 2016 when we wrote and published the book.

That book was less a guide and more a history of the pubs, the people frequented them and the area where they were situated.

In all there were 78 drinking places, and four years ago all but two were open and doing business. Of the two that were no more, one had only just closed and the other was Tommy Ducks, which as Mancunuian  knows was an establishment we couldn’t leave out.

You can order the book, along with our Chorlton and Didsbury pub books,  at www.pubbooks.co.uk or the old fashioned way on 07521 557888 or from Chorlton Bookshop

Location; Ducie Street, Manchester

Pictures; The Jolly Angler, 2020, from the collection of Andy Robertson, and the interior, 2016, Peter Topping, Manchester Pubs The Stories Behind the Doors City Centre page 224

*Manchester Pubs The Stories Behind the Doors City Centre,Peter Topping & Andrew Simpson, 2016

Uncovering a murky event at the Red Lion

Now when Andy Robertson sent over this picture of the Red Lion I knew it had to feature on the blog. 

Like a lot of people the “Red” has been one of those pubs which just keeps sliding back into my life.

As a student in the early 70s it was one of those places I haunted regularly when the dive bar of the White Lion became oppressive and I had had enough of Watney’s Red Barrel.

Then through the 1980’s it was where we went after meetings of the Withington CLP and where Keith, Tom and I passed the evening with Roy Grainger and others.

But for all sorts of reasons I stopped going and it was not until a few years ago that I reawakened my interest in the place after discovering it was the venue for the inquest into the murder of Mary Moore, who came from Chorlton, worked for the Chorlton family of Dog House farm and was murdered in Whalley Range on her way home from the Manchester Markets in 1838.

Pubs like the “Red” were often used for inquests.  They were after all public places and were often better suited to such occasions than the local church or school.

In Chorlton the Horse and Jockey was used for the inquest into the murder of Francis Deakin in 1847 and two infanticide cases and I suspect more.  And a little later in the century the Lloyd’s Hotel on Wilbraham Road hosted the Home Office inquiry into the “Great Chorlton Burial Scandal.”**

All of which means it is time to revisit the “Red” and look for stories from its past.

Location; The Red Lion, Withington

Pictures; the Red Lion, 2016, from the collection of Andy Robertson

* The murder of Mary Moore from Chorlton out in Whalley Range and an inquest in Withington, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/the-murder-of-mary-moore-from-chorlton.html

** The Great Burial Scandal, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-great-burial-scandal.html

Another one of the lost public lavatories

Now it was Andy Robertsons who suggested the idea of a bog for the blog and contributed two fine late 20th century public lavatories.

Since then quite a few other people have chipped in with ones that I had entirely forgotten.

The upshot I reckon will keep him busy for a while.

In the meantime here is one suggested by Steven Robertson.  Steven offered up a few but this one I recall vividly.

Like so many it was situated near a pub, in this case the Lloyds in Chorlton and stood in the car park.

Now not so long ago I went looking into the history of the place and I think this bit of open land was where one enterprising landlady opened up a set of tennis courts in the 1880s.

Long gone now, along with the public lavatory and the car park.









Picture; The Lloyd Hotel with that public lavatory, 1970, A Dawson, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

Lost pubs of Manchester ......... no 15 Swan With Two Necks at Withy Grove

Now I never visited the Swan With Two Necks on Withy Grove and now I never will.

Swan With Two Necks, 1980s

According to one source it had been doing the business of serving up beer from 1795 and certainly twenty years earlier there had been a building on the site.*

By 1821 the landlady was a Lydia Oliver who was still there in 1827 and according to the rate books owned property in the surrounding streets.

The rateable value of the pub was £100 in 1823 and this far exceeded the rates of other buildings on the road and puts the other pub just a few doors down in the shadows.  This was run by Alice Wilmott who is listed as paying just £45 for the front two rooms of no 5 Withy Grove.

Swan With Two Necks, 1851

All of which makes Ms Oliver an interesting person to research, but for now all I know is that she was dead by 1841 because her properties are recorded as being managed by Executors.

There is a reference to a Lydia Oliver who was buried in Cheetham in September 1838 and whose death was registered by the Chorlton Union a few days earlier.

If this is our Ms Oliver, she had been born in 1765 and was 73 at her death.

So I shall return to the pub which vanished only relatively recently and is now the site of a takeaway business.

Swan With Two Necks, 1959

Back in the 1820s the pub was simply known as the Swan and I shall go looking for just when it gained that extra neck but it was trading with that new name by 1844 and in 1911 was run by a the Kinaman family.

Martin Kinaman was 51, and from Ireland and had been married to Clara Ann for twenty one years.

They had five children of whom the eldest Claire Kathleen at 19 was serving as a barmaid and that April of 1911 they shred the six roomed property with Amy Gough who was 31, from Manchester and described herself as a “housekeeper.”

The Swan With Two Necks, 1970

And for those  who want to know more about the pub in more recent times that excellent site Pubs of Manchester has a good description which should be read in conjunction with the four photographs of the pub since 1959 on the local image collection.

These later pictures are themselves facinating for showing the transfoirmation from traditional exterior to one in keeping with the 1970s.




Location; Manchester

Pictures;  Swan with Two Necks, 1980s from the collection of John Casey, the pub in 1959 by H W Beaumont, m50619, courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass and in 1970 by  A Davison, m50620, and map showing the pub in 1851 from Adshead’s map of Manchester 1851, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/

*Pubs of Manchester, http://pubs-of-manchester.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/swan-with-two-necks-withy-grove.html

So farewell the Ducie Bridge ……… much loved and missed

You have been closed since 2015, but acquired a facebook site all to yourself, and a place in that definitive book on Manchester Pubs.*

The Ducie Bridge Inn, 2016

But age, changing demographics and a developer’s plan has sealed your fate.

Soon, the demolition teams will make a start on wiping you away, and in your place will rise a new office block to be called 4 Angel Square.

And  200 years of pub history will disappear, but not completely, for in your time you upset the authorities enough to feature in the papers, prompting Peter and I to record that in 1870, the then landlord, a John Ashton tolerated “thieves and reputed thieves who were in the habit of assembling in the pub.”**

Giving evidence at the City Police Courts, Police Sergeant Potts said on one occasion he had seen “four convicted thieves, namely John Silk, John Harrison, Ellen Tucker and Margaret Tracey, besides 12 reputed thieves and a ‘ticket to leave man,’ as well as men at the door of the house who seeing him, ran in quickly and then others came running out.”***

In his defence Mr Ashton claimed that given that the area was in a low locality “if I do not serve them I may as well close the house for very few come into the house except thieves.”

The Ducie Bridge Inn, 1851

And that pretty much sealed his fate. Mr Ashton was fined £10 ordered to give security of another £20 to keep the peace for another 12 months and lost his license.

There is more, but for that you will have to turn to our book, Manchester Pubs – The Stories Behind the Doors – City Centre, which offers up the stories of 78 of our most iconic and historic pubs , grouped into 15 walks, and accompanied with 600 paintings, pictures and period maps.****

But all is not entirely lost as according to the planning application, Salford Archaeology will be undertaking a full and detailed dig of the site, concluding that the area “holds considerable potential to contain buried remains of archaeological interest, relating to both the later medieval and post-medieval settlement along Long Millgate, as well the 18th-and 19th-century workers’ housing and commercial buildings which occupied much of the site (Salford Archaeology 2019). 

The majority of these buildings were cleared in the 20th century, although a group of three 19th-century buildings survives on the site, which are of local archaeological interest”.****

All of which I think is quite exciting, and is some consolation for your passing, which of course will forever be remembered in Manchester Pubs – The Stories Behind The Doors – City Centre which is available  from http://www.pubbooks.co.uk/ 

Location; Corporation Street,

Pictures, The Ducie Bridge Painting, © Peter Topping, Miller Street,1851,  from Adshead’s map of Manchester, courtesy of Digital Archives Association, http://digitalarchives.co.uk/

*Manchester Pubs- The Stories Behind the Doors—City Centre, Peter Topping & Andrew Simpson, 2016

**Manchester Guardian, March 30, 1870.

***Ticket of leave, issued to a criminal who had shown good conduct and was awarded certain freedoms including permission to get a job. Tickets of leave recorded details of employment and addresses.

****A new book on Manchester Pubs, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search/label/A%20new%20book%20on%20Manchester%20Pubs


*****Manchester City Council Planning Portal, CDN/19/0860 | Discharge of planning condition 3 (written scheme of archaeological investigation) associated with planning permission 123438/FO/2019 | 5 Angel Square Corporation Street Manchester M4 4DU, https://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=PZKEJSBCJ4F00

Trawling the history of the Seven Stars on Withy Grove

Now there are better examples of this postcard, and better images of the Seven Stars in the collection, but it does have a battered charm.

And it does allow me to return to the story of the newly digitalized list of Manchester beer shops and pubs.

The original list was compiled by Bob Potts between 1980 and 1984 and involved a close scrutiny of the City’s licensing records, along with another collection housed in the Lancashire Archives and cross checked against the census returns.

They have been passed over to me for “a long stay”, allowing me to trawl the handwritten lists and over the last week build them into an excel spreadsheet.

That task has been done and just requites me to edit out the duplications leaving me a wonderful insight into the history of our pubs in the city centre.

It isn’t a complete list, partly because the records for the period from 1830 to 1875 are lost but there is much left to give a comprehensive record of the provision of public houses and the relationship between their opening and the development of key areas of the city.

And of course, the database reveals a fascinating mix of pub names, drawn from historical events and figures, to occupations and the whim of some landlords to personalize the name with a variation of their own name or place of birth.

Which brings us back to the Severn Stars, which the sign makes the claim to be “the oldest licensed House in Great Britain”, and the database shows that that license was first granted in 1327.

Leaving me just to use the census returns and directories to identify the landlord and other occupants from the mid-19th century to its demise in 1912, and along the way search the newspapers for stories.

Location; Manchester

Picture; Seven Stars, Withy Grove, 1907, from the collection of David Harrop