Chorlton-cum-Hardy Vestry …… Disgraceful Proceedings

The world is full of breaking news, most of it grim.

The old Parish Church, circa 187o

So, here is what passed for breaking news in the March of 1865 across our own township.

“Last evening a meeting of the vestry was held  in St Clements School room, Chorlton-cum Hardy.

Before the proceedings commenced Mr. Charles Clark walked up to the table and took the chair.  He said  that the meeting was one adjourned from the vestry at which he had been elected chairman.  He was soon followed by the Rev. J.E. Booth, the rector of the parish , who taking a seat next to that of Mr. Clark, said he took the chair ex-offico”.

At which point one of the churchwardens got up and insisted that the Reverend take the chair, which was followed by competing shouts supporting and objecting to the suggestion, which in turn was followed by both Mr. Clark and the Rev. Booth attempting to speak at the same time.

Circa 1890

Mr. Clarke asserting, he would “not relinquish the chair , if he had to remain in the room till the next morning”, while the Reverend Booth replied that he “would take the chair legally or not”.

In the subsequent shouting and heckling from the meeting Mr. Clark could not be heard.

Happily order was restored and the meeting progressed, with an attempt at a resolution to the dispute which sought to end the great Church division, between those who wanted a new parish church and those who wanted to retain the old place of worship beside the village green.

This older church had begun as a chapel of rest, dating from the 1500, and was rebuilt in 1800 as the parish church.

But by the 1860s despite extension it had become too small, and there was a move a new one, on a site very close by.

All looked to be going well until Lord Egerton offered an alternative site on Edge Lane, which divided the congregation between the traditionalist and those who not only favoured Egerton’s offer but proceeded to raise money and begin building a new church.

1933

That church was completed in stages but while it could only carry out “divine worship”, leaving the task of baptisms, marriages and burial services to the much smaller and older church on the green.

A state of affairs which lasted until 1940 when it was closed because of frost damage, and all services passed to the new church.

But that was way into the future, when Mr. Clark and the Reverend Booth clashed in the old school hall.

The upshot of that tussle was that the meeting resolved to maintain the primacy of the old church, but it had been a fight to the end.

The modernists tabled a resolution calling on the bishop to side with them and transfer the funding from the Church of England to  the new church, but an amendment which recognized the new church but asserted that service should be retained in the old, and more importantly that the official funding should also remain with the old church was carried, “on a large majority in favour which was carried amid cheers and groans”.

Location; Chorlton-cum-Hardy

Pictures; the old parish church circa 1870, from the collection of Tony Walker, and circa 1890 from the Lloyd Collection, and 1933, by F. Blyth, from A Short history of Chorlton-cum-Hardy by J.D. Blyth, 1933

Leaving me just to say that the full story can be found in The Story of Chorlton-cum-Hardy, and Chorlton-cum-Hardy Churches, Chapels, Temples, A Synagogue and a Mosque.**

* Chorlton-cum-Hardy Vestry …… Disgraceful Proceedings, Manchester Guardian, March 9, 1865

** The Story of Chorlton-cum-Hardy, Andrew Simpson, 2012, and Chorlton-cum-Hardy Churches, Chapels, Temples, A Synagogue and a Mosque, Andrew Simpson & Peter Topping, 2018**

With Gertie on Westmount Road in Eltham in 1915

Now I like picture postcards, not just because of the image on the front but because of the message on the back.

Sometimes they are short and to the point but often they take you off in all sorts of directions and along the way tell you much about what was going on in Eltham at the time.

And so it is with this one.

It was sent by Gertie to E in 1915 from Westmount Road.

Now the house is still there on Westmount Road, and is an impressive double fronted property which according to the census return in 1911 had nine rooms.

And back in 1911 it was the home of Lewis St J R Clutterbuck, his wife Isabella, and their daughter Jessie along with their three servants, Mary and Elizabeth Jackson, and Louisa Mary Pim Casson.

Mary and Elizabeth were sisters from Essex and Louisa was from Suffolk.  Louisa was described as the parlour maid, Elizabeth the cook and Mary “child’s nurse.”

Not that there was anything much unusual in that, for Jessie was just two years old and Lewis was a Lieutenant in the Royal Field Artillery so I guess there was the usual degree of status to maintain and perhaps also a demanding social life for the two who had only been married  for three years.

And that is where the story could go off in all sorts of directions.

Lewis had been born in Dublin into an army family whose father in turn had been born in India.  In 1891 Lewis and his parents were stationed in Chester Castle, and a decade later Lewis aged 16  was training to be an officer in Woolwich.

So by 1915 t is possible the family had moved on again and they may not have been in Westmount Road when the young Gertie sent her postcard which announced “I like the nursery work so much better so have taken a nurse’s place 2 children."

It would be tempting to think she was now nurse to Jessie and another, but at present there is no way of knowing.

The street directories would help but I don’t at present have access to the ones for the period, nor do I have Lewis’s service record, although I think he survived the Great War to rise to the rank of Colonel in 1939.

And then there are other leads, E lived at Foxearth Hall in Sudbury which might suggest she too was a servant.

It is a simple enough piece of domestic history but which still has the opportunity to lead off down different paths.

But what I also like about the card is that little touch of humour reflected in Gertie’s after thought which just says, "Floss tells me post it now about time too?!!"

And post it she did sometime in the later afternoon.

Picture; from the collection of Andrew Simpson

When I lost a water trough ….. in Stretford in the summer of 1965

 I collect water troughs ….. eccentric perhaps but fun.

And had I been on Chester Road in the summer of 1965 this one would have made the collection.

But then in 1965 I was sixteen still living at home in southeast London and had yet to come across one of the passions of my life.  

Sixty years ago I might well have snapped this one, recorded its exact location, and returned decades later to check its fate.

Now I have no idea how many water troughs were made in the 19th century or for that matter how many have survived.

In London they were made and maintained by the Metropolitan Drinking Fountain and Cattle Trough Association which is not the zippiest of names but neatly does the business.

It had been founded in 1859 as the Metropolitan Drinking Fountain Association and added the rest when it began providing fresh water for horses and cattle as well as fountains for the people of London.

According to Dickens’s Dictionary of London, in 1879 there were 800 fountains and troughs which on a hot day 30,000 people took advantage of the supply while a “single trough supplied the wants of 1,800 horses in day.”*

So, I shouldn’t be surprised that in my pursuit of water troughs I should keep turning up fine examples of ones that have lasted the course.

All of which leads me back to the Chester Road trough which the caption from the 1965 slide says was erected in 1874, and here’s the rub I can’t find it.

I have wandered down Chester Road using Google maps, checked out the route from the 1896 OS map, and even trawled the collection of old photographs from Trafford Lifetimes, but to no avail.**

That said someone will know, suggest where to look and perhaps surprise me with the fact that it now resides in one of the parks.

And even before the post went live, my friend Lawrence helped me out with, "I do remember it now. That’s the floodlights of Old Trafford in the background. 

They were four steel towers at each corner. Erected around late 1957 early 1958. Now demolished. That pub is the Dog and Partridge. Used to go drinking in there when I was 16. Now demolished and the Bishop’s Blaze pub was built there.

Chester Road was widened and the island went under tarmac and the horse trough disappeared. That area has fascinating relics of the early 20th Century. I think the building behind the camera now a Halfords tyre fixing garage was a factory for motor cars.

It's the starter for ten.

Location; Stretford

Pictures; the Stretford water trough, Chester Road 1965, from the 1965 Collection 

*quoted from Metropolitan Drinking Fountain and Cattle Trough Association, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Drinking_Fountain_and_Cattle_Trough_Association

**Trafford Lifetimes, https://apps.trafford.gov.uk/TraffordLifetimes/

A Manchester Love Story …… John and Enriqueta Rylands .... the talk this Saturday ….

I can think of no better place for Juliette Thomlinson to talk about her debut novel featuring John and Enriqueta Rylands than Stretford Public Library.*

Afterall John Rylands established the first free lending library in Stretford in 1883 and his wife Enriqueta gifted it to the local authority a decade later, following this up in1903 by paying for the structural alterations to the building costing £1,335.

Longford Hall, 1965

Juliette’s talk with be in the present Stretford Library which dates from 1940. 

She tells me that she will be discussing how she came to write the novel, her own personal connection to both Longford Hall and the park as well as a bit about both John and Enriqueta Rylands.

And given that Juliette is an excellent speaker with an engaging manner which does not distract from her knowledge of the Ryland’s we should be in for an interesting afternoon.

Longford: A Manchester Love Story, Saturday March 1st, at 4pm for an hour in Stretford Library, Bennett Street, Stretford, M32 8AP No charge

Stretford Library, 2022

Location; Stretford

Pictures; cover of A Manchester Love Story, courtesy of the author, Longford Hall, 1965 from The 1965 Collection and Stretford Library, 2022, courtesy of Google Maps 

*A Manchester Love Story, The Squeeze Press, www.woodenbooks.com

Tickets for Longford: A Manchester Love Story, available from eventbright https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/longford-a-manchester-love-story-tickets-1248215398859?aff=ebdsshsms&utm_share_source=listing_android

Early morning on Beech Road ………..

Long before the bars, the restaurants and gift shops there was a Beech Road.*

It’s present incarnation as a cool place to visit is just the most recent reason to wander down from Barlow Moor Road to the old village green.

Within living memory, it was a destination for a heap of traditional shops with a mix of retail outlets offering everything from food, hardware, and services including a plumbing firm, TV repair shop, photographer, Bryan the Book and the emporium for gerbils, goldfish and all things pet related.

And long even before all of these there were farmhouses, a blacksmith, a pond and the homes of the posh.

Back then and way into the distant past it was known as Chorlton Row and twisted and turned avoiding natural obstacles down from the main lane from Didsbury to Chorlton Green.

That twisty turny place is best discovered in the early morning before the “Friends of Beech Road” with their cars parked across the pavement have arrived.

So today I was out around 7.30 but the cars were already parked up and by 11 the Friends were arriving.

Location; Beech Road

Pictures; Early morning Beech Road, 2025, from the collection of Andrew Simpson

*Beech Road, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search/label/Beech%20Road

Our own Elizabethan country house …… sixty years ago

This is Hough End Hall as it was on a summer’s day in 1965.

The Hall has a long and mixed history and is a place I often write about. *

It was built in 1596 by Sir Nicholas Mosley and was all a country house should be for a man who had done gooder in London and had returned to live in splendid retirement.

It’s mixed past included being the Mosley home, and later a farmhouse for over 250 years before becoming a restaurant, briefly an office suit and a restaurant again.

During the immediate years after the millennium, it stood empty with an uncertain future which mirrored a similar period in the early and mid-20th century.

That earlier time nearly saw it demolished when plans for Mauldeth Road West were being considered, and while it escaped it became the subject of various proposals to turn it into a community centre and a museum.

Eventually it was acquired by a local farmer who in turn sold it on to a developer, who very lightly followed a brief to restore it.

That restoration used the wrong materials, and at some point, the interior was gutted to create two large spaces at ground level and above.  Also, in the process the second floor was lost, and two office blocks were constructed to the west of the hall, almost totally obscuring Nicholas Mosley’s pride and joy.

They can only be described as “the abomination of desolation”, brutal, ugly and with no charm.**

The restoration did at least put a roof back on the building and end its association with groups of children who used it as playground while searching for ghosts.

The exact details of the sale, the restoration and those office blocks are now hazy. 

But we do have the memories of Oliver Bailey who acquired the hall, and a series of letters and articles from 1962 through to 1972 in the Manchester Guardian and Guardian newspapers as well as a book on the story of the building. ***

Along with these there are a heap of paintings, photographs and plans stretching back to the early 19th century, including a wonderful set of images taken in the mid-1960s of kids playing in the building by Roger Shelley.

To these can now be added these there from the 1965 Collection.

Location; Hough End Hall

Pictures; the Hall in 1965 from the 1965 Collection

*Hough End Hall, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search/label/Hough%20End%20Hall

**“the abomination of desolation” The Book of Daniel 12:11

***Hough End Hall The Story, Andrew Simpson, Peter Topping, 2015

Discovering more on that bomb that fell on Well Hall Road in 1916

This is one of those stories which are still as they say in the making but with the help of Tricia I think much of the lives of the family who died on Well Hall Road in the August of 1916 will be revealed.

They were the Allen family and they were living at 210 Well Hall Road when the house was almost completely destroyed by a bomb from a Zeppelin.

It was a story that has pretty much been forgotten and surfaces only as a footnote to pictures of the ruined house or in the story of the Zeppelin Raid.

Now I can’t claim much of the story.  It was Tricia who found the picture and Daniel who tracked it down to what is now 290 Well Hall Road in a neat bit of detective work.

And it was also Tricia who found the family in Surrey in 1911 and those they were buried in St John’s and she has promised to go into the Heritage Centre today and dig a bit deeper.

They may be some newspaper accounts of the bombing and an indication where they were buried in the church yard.

It may even be that the Centre holds the employment records for the Arsenal for this is where Mr Allen would have been employed.

And that will be useful for in 1911 he described himself as a domestic coachman and seven years earlier they had been in Cape Town in South Africa.

All of which means there is more to the story and in its telling I hope we will discover more about the tragic event and the family who have pretty much fallen out of history.

Picture; the house on Well Hall Road, 2015 from the collection of Daniel Murphy

*One hundred years of one house in Well Hall part 12 ........... the bomb that dropped next door, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-max=2015-08-04T02:30:00%2B01:00&max-results=7

On a day in 1969 ……..waiting for the new Hulme.

Now, I am not going into the debate on the regeneration of Hulme in the late 1960s and early 1970s, other than to say, some tired old properties were swept away to be replaced by others which failed the test of time.

Instead I shall reflect on the picture which perfectly captures that a moment in the cycle of city regeneration.

In the distance are some of the flats already erected and beyond them the landscape of the city centre.

But the rest is just an open building site, pretty much cleared of the demolished houses, with few recognizable points of reference.

Location; Hulme

Picture; Regenerating Hulme, 1969,courtesy of Manchester Libraries, Information and Archives, Manchester City Council, http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass

   

Zeppelins over Well Hall

I have become fascinated by the story of the Allen family who lived just two doors down from us on Well Hall Road and died in a Zeppelin raid on August 25th, 1916.*

Until recently I knew nothing about them or that that their home was destroyed by that air raid.

But Tricia Leslie had uncovered a picture of the war damaged house and Daniel Murphy then tracked it down to what is now 290 Well Hall Road.

And from there Tricia went on to reveal something of the family and the night the bomb fell on Well Hall.

The Allen’s were from Surrey but by 1916 had already spent time in South Africa and New Zealand.

This I know because Tricia had uncovered their census entry for 1911 which showed them living in Surrey but also that their daughter Gladys had been born in Cape Town in 1904, and four years later they were bound on the SS Corinthic for Wellington which left London on February 5 1908.

I guess the journey would have been fairly comfortable given that the SS Corinthic was just six years old.  It was one of those work a day ships which carried freight and passengers and had been built for the route to New Zealand.

Now such globetrotting was not so uncommon and given that Mr Allen was an engineer he would have been part of that generation that went out across the world building and maintaining the machines of empire.

But by 1916 the family was back in Britain and Mr Allen was working at the Arsenal and living in of those brand new homes on the Well Hall estate.

Of course for them that was pretty much the end of the story.

According to newspaper reports of the raid and the subsequent coroner’s inquests the Zepplin that dropped the bomb had taken a random and leisurely route dropping its payload across the south east.

By the standards of the air raids of the Second World War this was a small affair, with just eight people being killed.

But that is not to diminish the loss of life or the damage done and the coroner’s comments reveal the extent to which this was a new type of warfare.

Summing up he said “the interesting point in these cases was as to the safest place.  In each case the bomb appeared to have exploded in the upper part of the house and it seemed that the ground floor and basements were more or less safe, except from falling debris.”**

A fact which was not lost on those in 1940 faced with no air raid shelters.

* Zeppelins over Well Hall, http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Zeppelins%20over%20Well%20Hall

**District Times September 1916

Research by Tricia Leslie

Picture; the bombed house today courtesy of Daniel Murphy

Taking a swing ...... to Salford

I was never allowed to take Geography O level which may account for my reluctance to  be precise on the location of the Barton Road Swing Bridge.

But Tony my old Salford chum and fellow dabbler in dusty stuff from the past assures me that the 1974 local government boundary changes left it with Salford.

That said I fear my other trusty pal Bill from Stretford my have something to say about Trafford’s claim to the bridge.

Being from southeast London with a Manchester occupancy permit dating back only to 1969 I shall retire from the debate, and just say that the images come from the 1965 Collection and were originally colour slides

Of course the date may prove a challenge to Tony's claim but happily back in 1965 I was still travelling the Thames by the Woolwich Ferry and those two foot tunnels that ran underneath the river, with an option on the link by Underground between Rotherhithe and Wapping.

But now I am showng off.

So I will leave to allow those who wish to complete "If it ain't got ....." and suggest a location.

And quicker than a gerbil can eat a lettuce Tony responded with "Great photo taken from the Davyhulme side with Barton High Level Motorway Bridge in the distance..in 1965 was under Eccles..the swing bridge is owned and (badly) maintained by Peel Holdings..a great photo none the less".

Location Barton Road, [note my care in not saying which authority]

Pictures; Barton Road Swing Bridge, 1965, from the 1965 Collection

The grimy ones ........ our River

Now here is another of those short series taken from the family archive.

All were taken around 1979 and offer up scenes of the River which we knew but most tourists seldom saw.

Location; the River

Pictures; the River, 1979, from the collection of Andrew Simpson

Where are you now? .....not quite lost but now very found

I am guessing there will be a very simple answer which will make me look daft, but I wonder where this milestone is now? And of course there was ..... jist read to the bottom.

The "Old Mile Post", 1965

It was according to the caption the “Old Mile Post, Chester Road, Stretford, (outside St Matthews Church)”.

Now I was there a few months ago and couldn’t see it.

But back then I wasn’t looking for it, and indeed only discovered it last week when I was looking through a set of colour slides, donated by the daughter of the chap who took the pictures.

In all there are 32 images, which cover Manchester, Salford, Stretford, Wythenshawe and Chorlton.

The collection was made in the summer of 1965, and are mix of industrial scenes, some historic buildings and a few of city centre Manchester.

So that is it.

My old fellow wanderer through the past, Bill Sumner has promised to investigate.

The Great Stone, 1965

Leaving me just to add the bonus picture of the Great Stone, which Historic England tells me “is probably the remains of a medieval boundary cross. 

It is now at the entrance to Gorse Hill Park but it originally stood on the south side of the Roman road from Manchester to Chester. 

It was moved here in 1925. It is also thought to have been used later as a plague stone. Plague stones had holes in, usually filled with vinegar, where money from an infected town could be placed so that trades people delivering food could collect it. 

This meant they did not have to come in to contact with those infected. The vinegar was thought to act as a disinfectant on the money”.*

So, 40 years after it was placed in the park it was the subject of a photograph, and while I can be sure of its location I bet there will be someone with an alternative explanation for its origin.

We shall see

Where Chris and others said it was, 2025

And sure enough the answer to the missing mile post has been solved.

It is outside the St Ann's Chruch on Chester Road.  Apologies to all those who correctlty located it and to who I said it wasn't, and to Chris Geliher,who had the patience and the determination to offer up an image of the mile post in situ.

In my defence it is much smaller than I thought it would be in real life and missed it on my google maps trawl of  Chester Road.

*The Great Stone, Chester Road, Stretford, Greater Manchester, Historic England, https://historicengland.org.uk/services-skills/education/educational-images/the-great-stone-chester-road-stretford-8408

Location; Stretford

Pictures; Old Mile Post and Great Stone, 1965 from the 1965 Collection, and the Mile Post outside St Ann's Church, 2025, from Chris Geliher

The Stretford I never knew ………..60 years ago

It is 60 years ago that this collection of images was taken.

They cover Manchester, Stretford and out to Chorlton and Wythenshawe and are a mix of industrial scenes, some old historic buildings and more than a few of well-known city centre sites.

What they have in common was the year they were taken and that originally they were colour slides.

The collection was donated to me by the daughter of the photographer, but somewhere along the line their identity was lost, although I am still looking for the letter, email or Facebook message which alerted me to the names of the woman who donated them and the photographer.

I hope by posting them the donor will come forward and I can change the credit from the 1965 collection to a name.

These are image of the Stretford I never knew.

That said the first is vaguely familiar and is the junction of Edge Lane and Chester Road, but with differences.

The second is Longford Hall, which I may just remember, but never really bothered with and then it was gone. 

Like all of the32 I the collection they are a unique record of how things were in 1965.

Location; Stretford

Pictures, Edge Lane and Chester Road, and Longford Hall from the 1965 Collection

When a heap of Chorlton’s history arrives on the doorstep …. thank you Dave King

Now, I am always on the lookout for new stories about our past.

A bit of Manchester's heritage, 1974

Sometimes they come out of diligent research from dusty archives and sometimes through the generosity of people who like me collect stuff.

Over the years it has been everything from photographs, letters and diaries, as well as stories handed down through families.

And yesterday Dave King dropped off a wonderful portfolio of maps pictures and other things.

Dave like me loves maps and here in the portfolio were a selection of OS maps from the 1950s and 1970s with a few from the turn of the last century.

Most relate to Chorlton, with a sideways look at Whalley Range, Firswood, Stretford and Wythenshawe.

Along with these were presentation folders from the Manchester Evening News and the City Council on some of the historic landmarks in the city.  They date from 1974 and ’75 and include some fine line drawings of buildings, which in the case of the Shambles in its Arndale setting and Albert Square have themselves become history.

Beech Road before our house, 1908

But it is the maps that have drawn me in, particularly those dating to the 1970s which fill a gap in my collection.

And as you do, I first turned to Beech Road which confirmed what I thought that the bowling green on the Rec was still there in 1974, while I can now date the former police station in the old tram terminus on Barlow Moor Road to 1955.

From there it was just a skip and a hop to the site of the now doomed Chorlton Precinct and the row of semidetached properties which occupied the spot.

In 1955 those that ran along Manchester Road and Barlow Moor Road were set in large gardens, and three were designated as “surgeries”, while what is at present the service way into the rear of the precinct from the car park was originally a road running off Manchester Road and connecting with that passageway between Yara and Costa Coffee.

Before the Precinct, 1955

This last revelation my not be in the same league as the discovery of the lost resting place of King Richard III, or the Cabinet Papers for the Miner’s Strike, but they are a little bit of our history.

And if nothing else offer up an insight into how the developers back in the early 1970s used the existing road network in the creation of the Precinct.

Leaving me just to dig out the OS map for 1974 with its detail of the Precinct’s footprint ready for when it demolition and replacement makes it just another bit of our past.

Location; Chorlton and Manchester

Pictures; detail of the OS map for Manchester and Salford, 1908 and 1955 and the cover of Make the Most of Manchester’s Heritage, Manchester Evening News, 1974, from the collection of Dave King 

When Well Hall, Woolwich and Manchester collided........ stories from a book

Now I no longer think it odd that one of the most vivid descriptions of the Royal Artillery’s Barracks at Woolwich should be from letters sent by a young soldier to his wife in Manchester.

George Davison, 1916

Or that his will made in the March of 1918 should have been witnessed by a friend who lived on the site of Well Hall Odeon just minutes away from where I grew up on the Progress Estate.

What links all of these is that they were part of the research I did for a book on Manchester and the Great War which came out last year.*

It told the stories of the people who lived through the conflict, waved loved ones goodbye who were destined for battlefronts around the world, and then got on with the daily demands of earning a living, and bringing up a family against a backdrop of rising prices, and food shortages.

Yesterday I reflected on that “last will and testament" of George Davison who was that soldier and also of his wife Nellie who spent time with the Drinkall family who witnessed the will and who were fond of both George and Nellie.**

In his letter’s home George writes about the conditions in the barracks, the poor quality of the food and the bedding, and the antics of his fellow soldiers.

And more than once I have pondered on the links between me and the Davison’s.

Our house on Well Hall Road would in all probability have been known to them, and I regularly passed the barracks where he was stationed.

Added to which, before he was married he lived just a ten minute walk away from where I live in Chorlton which is a suburb of Manchester.

So while we may have been separated by almost a century I have a strong connection with a soldier from Manchester who lived briefly in Woolwich and Well Hall and became part of my book.

Location; Well Hall, Woolwich and Manchester

Picture; George Davison, 1916, from the collection of David Harrop

*Manchester Remembering 1914-18, 2017, the History Press, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/the-great-war-how-we-remember-it.html

** Mrs Nellie Davison at Well Hall .......... stories behind the book nu 27 making the connection, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/mrs-nellie-davison-at-well-hall-stories.html

Ashton-Under-Lyne Market on a sunny day in the 1950s

This is another of those cards for which I don’t have a date, but judging by the clothes and the vans we are sometime in the 1950s.

So this is the market place in Ashton-Under-Lyne a full twenty years or so before I knew it.  

The impressive Town Hall is still covered in a century of soot and grime, the market stalls are positioned differently from where I remember them but the place still looks familiar.

Like all market places there is a bustle and purpose to what you see. The merchandise is piled high and you have a choice ranging from fresh food to clothes, and novelty goods and toys.

So in that respect not a lot has changed.  The last time I was there the stalls of vegetables and fruit competed with plastic toys, dubious electrical goods and all manner of fashions.

And on the periphery are the ice cream vans and fast food businesses, offering tea, coffee and sandwiches with of course the attractive looking but often slightly stale cakes and buns.

All a lot different from the designer markets which regularly appear in the city centre and on the village green.

These remain a bit of a novelty, but all too often there is little to choose between Italian week and that German experience, and I rather think that in many cases the produce is exactly the same.

As for bargains I don’t know.

All of which is a bit different from the old Grey Mare Lane Market opposite where we lived and the Ashton market.

I still remember that wonderful bright marbled sponge cake in layers you buy in slabs and the record stall from which I bought a treasured Marvin Gaye, Tammy Tyrell LP which over thirty years later I still have.

But enough of such memories.

Instead I shall add those of Margaret Gain who posted that she was "born and bred in Ashton and that is exactly as I remember the market. 

My mum shopped there every other day. 

The ice cream vans were Fairclough's and Howard's. Kelly's salad stall, Latus for fruit and veg, the dolls hospital, the roundabouts and the swings. 

It was a real delight to go to the market. 

There's an excellent book called 'to market, to market' in the Local Studies Library all,about Ashton Market."

All of which leaves me to hope there will be plenty more memories from Margaret and others who remember the scene.

Location; Ashton-Under-Lyne, Tameside, Greater Manchester

Picture; Market Place and Town Hall from the series Ashton-U-Lyne, issued by Tuck & Sons, courtesy of TuckDB http://tuckdb.org/history

Narnia on the Green ……

Daft I know and there will be those who will be dismissive of the Narnia books and a tad critical of the quality of the picture.

But I like the lamp post which has a long history, as does the village green.*

It was stolen in the early 19th century by Mr. Wilton, and only returned to public use near the close of the 19th century.

And that is that.

Location; Chorlton Green

Picture; Narnia on the Green, 202, from the collection of Andrew Simpson

*Chorlton green, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/search/label/Chorlton%20green

That twisty little side street …… all promise with a hint of mystery

Now I have always been fascinated by Back Pool Fold, and have written it about it more than once.*

Back Pool Fold, 1967

It has an almost Dickensian feel, less so now,  than when I first stumbled across it in 1969, but still one where your imagination has free reign.

Sainbury's and Red Barn Charcoal Grill, 1967

And I was reminded of that first encounter, when I called up this picture from the collection.

I can’t now remember if Sainsbury’s and the Red Barn Charcoal Grill were still there when I first wandered down Cross Street and took a step in to the gloom that was Back Fold Place.

Back then, the city was still full of twisty little thoroughfares, that might or might not lead somewhere.

And more often than not there was an interesting eating place, or shady drinking venue which existed side by side with the entrance to a group of dismal and run down offices which wouldn’t have looked out of place, when Mr. Scrooge had his change of heart.

Back Pool Fold, 2016

And squeezed between them might well be an enterprising little textile warehouse, offering bespoke shirts, stylish skirts, and a range of exotic underwear.

Today, Back Pool Fold can still be full of surprises, but where would the fun be in not letting you discover them for yourself?

So, there you have it, I won't say any more, and will just add that it can be accessed from Cross Street, or Chapel Walks.

Either, will offer up a bit of city atmosphere, especially if you choose to enter the street just as dusk is falling.

Now that's a challenge.

Location; Cross Street, Manchester

Picture; Back Pool Fold, "Courtesy of Manchester Archives+ Town Hall Photographers' Collection",
https://www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterarchiveplus/albums/72157684413651581?fbclid=IwAR35NR9v6lzJfkiSsHgHdQyL2CCuQUHuCuVr8xnd403q534MNgY5g1nAZfY and Back Pool Fold in 2016 from the collection of Andrew Simpson

*Lost and forgotten streets of Manchester .......... nu 2 Pool Fold, https://chorltonhistory.blogspot.com/2019/12/lost-and-forgotten-streets-of.html

Walking away with a bargain ...........in the market in Ashton on a Tuesday in February

I had forgotten how much I like Ashton and in particular the market.

We had taken the tram up from Chorlton on a bright sunny day which was perfect for a wander around the town.

The plan had been to visit the museum down at the Portland Basin and as you do we took a slow walk back along Stamford Street and by degree ended up in the main square.

Now the open air market is still in the process of being redone but there were still plenty of the old stalls along with the temporary pitches for our Jill and Geoff up from London to look for bargains.

And Geoff did just that coming away with two very nice shirts a couple of CDs and something for the kitchen.

Jill had debated on whether to buy a couple of pies from the indoor market but didn’t reckon they would survive the journey back.

So instead we wandered off again and explored some of the streets close by and unlike great chunks of south Manchester there are still lots of small interesting shops which offer everything from balls of wool and knitting patterns to fire grates, and fish food.

Location; Ashton-Under-Lyne, Tameside




Picture; the open air market, 2016, from the collection of Andrew Simpson

In Ashton-Under-Lyne with James Butterworth in 1823

Now I made a terrible mistake some years ago and got rid of loads of old history books.

I reasoned as many dated from the late 1960s fresh research would have made them obsolete.

And of course within two years I regretted the act and had bought two of the books all over again.

I should have known better after all I still collect old school history texts just because they tell you so much about what society deemed was important history when they were published.

Usually these meant telling the story from the top down, ignoring the contribution of women and anyone who was not born from a certain class or part of Britain.

The same is also true of many of the history books produced in the 18th and 19th century and aimed at the serious adult reader.

They can be shot through with the same class prejudice but in doing so reveal much about the period in which they were written which of course makes them valuable in their own right.

So here we are with A HISTORY AND DESCRIPTION OF THE TOWN AND PARISH OF ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE AND THE VILLAGE OF DUKINFIELD, written by James Butterworth in 1823.

Like many books from the 19th century it  is available as a free download from Google Books.

I often go back to it as a source not only for the history of Ashton but also for the contemporary descriptions, which are themselves a wonderful record of the past.

So for the time being I shall just point you in the direction of the book and let you wander over its pages discovering as I have done some fascinating stories, made all the more so because Mr Butterworth was there.

Pictures; from A History and Description of the Town and Parish of Ashton-Under-Lyne and the Village of Dukinfield, James Butterworth, 1823

Off to Didsbury, in the summer of 1847

Now I can be as adventurous as the next chap and have been known to venture out of the township as far as Didsbury.

It was after all where our farmers went to get their cereal milled and it was where my old chum Alexander Somerville ended up in the June of 1847.

He had come over to Chorlton looking for potato blight, moved across the Mersey by the Greyhound pub at Jackson’s Boat and ended up in Didsbury.  A place he wrote
“of great beauty- not surpassed even by the beautiful fields, meadows, gardens, and the public pathways through them, lying around London.”*

And went on to revel in the place stating boldly

“Let the traveller, passing out of Cheshire into Lancashire by the Northern Ferry, who loves to loiter on the road, and see sights, come at the hour of summer sunset.  Let him approach Didsbury, and look back suddenly through the trees, the traveller will see the houses standing on the brow of eminence, and the gardens with them, and the people looking out of opened windows, the very houses gazing, as it were, with wonder; and the old church, with its graveyard, and the dead of a thousand years around it, standing in the very brink of the eminence.”

This I have to say is not an advert for the place nor a way of ingratiating myself with people of a neighbouring township who might just in the fullness of time buy a copy of The Story of Chorlton-Cum-Hardy** which like Didsbury was a small rural community.

Instead it is a way of introducing a new occasional series highlighting places close by.

And I now have a special interest in the Didsbury  because it is where Miss Leete of Poplar Grove lived, and she is someone I am very interested in because in a rural area dependant on farming she was on the Ladies Committee of the National Anti-Corn Law Bazaar.  The bazaar was held in London in the May of 1845 and was part of the campaign to abolish the Corn Laws.  These had been introduced in 1815 to protect British agriculture but amongst the working class and industrial interests were highly unpopular.

But more of her later, along with and some other interesting aspects of Didsbury in the early 19th century.  In the mean time I finish with my picture of the Didsbury Hotel.  The caption gives a date of 1860-70.

At that time there was a regular horse bus service operating from Manchester to Cheadle which went from "All Saints and from the Commercial Office on Brown Street via Rusholme, Fallowfield and Didsbury 40 minutes past nine, half past seven, and every hour at night; on Sundays at ten, eleven, one, two, half past two, three, half past three, seven, eight and nine.”***

And for those who wanted to travel a little down market there were the carriers of which two operated from Manchester.  These were “James Crompton from 2a Palace Street [off Market Street] and Alfred Midwinter from the Cock, Mark lane [Withy Grove] daily.”


*Alexander Somerville, A Pilgrimage in search of the Potato Blight, The Manchester Examiner, June 19th 1847
** http://chorltonhistory.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/A%20new%20book%20for%20Chorlton
*** Slater’s Directory of Manchester & Salford 1863

Picture; from the Lloyd Collection